Electric vehicles (split from Quentin Willson's hot tips)

[johnw]

Interestingly, a Ford Cortina Mk I weighs 787 kg.

VW Lupo 1.0 weighs 856 kg.

The lightweight "Lupo 3L" 1.2 tdi wighs 805kg, the 4 door Audi A2 version 820KG

in 2013 VW launched the XL1 hybrid, which does 310mpg, and in all electric mode has a range of 22 miles, and is lighter than the Lupo 3L at 795KG due to extensive use of composites. Perhaps range could be doubled with a modern battery today. It manages 6.2 miles per kwh. Tesla haven't broken the 5 miles per KWH yet with a production vehicle, and this is a 10 year old hybrid.

VW have continually commented that people don't want eco and fuel economy enough to pay for it.

A hybrid conversion on a Jensen might be much more beneficial than all electric with 50 mile range. Using electric for stop start and in town makes a lot of sense, a 10 mile range would be sufficient for many, a smattering of V8 growl from the lights, regenerative breaking, then silence and economy. Alloy parts for the engine would offset battery weight, at least in part.

[AH1951]

John,

That could only be a practical proposition if you were to use a much smaller, much lighter engine.

This one is probably too small.



https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WHpjrwULHYA

[mojo]

There are lightweight EVs around - can't recall offhand what the Mii weighed, but the Smart EQ was under 1100 kilos. I almost bought one of those, but the Chinese decided they wanted the name and not the Smart town car concept, so I didn't rate much to the chances of continuing support/development now MB have lost interest.

The new Renault 5 looks to be heading in the right direction (for me) in terms of price, weight and size, though I'm not interested as I don't need a brand new car - secondhand is fine by me.

[AH1951]

Slightly off-topic, but very interesting, I think.

10 minutes.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EtSez6IC3Ys

[mojo]

Not even slightly interesting in this topic, I think.

Just more anti-EV biased stuff with commentary by someone with an irritating voice.

[AH1951]

Yes, a highly-irritating voice indeed.
Imagine the pain of listening to that croaking every day!
Would send you nuts!

There is a growing chorus of criticism against EVs because people are waking up to their disadvantages and dangers.

I say, let the marketplace decide.
But without government intervention.
And that's exactly what's happening.
Lots are overflowing with EVs nobody wants.
Ford and GM are hugely in debt.
Ford loses over $40,000 on each EV it sells!

Workers are being laid off in their thousands.

I think it's hilarious, but then I'm Mr Schadenfreude.

I want to know if the conversion to electric of that beautiful Interceptor has been abandoned.
If not, we should have had an update by now.

I shall try to contact the company after I return to Germany.
I'm really nosey to know the answer.

EV subsidies are like throwing your tax dollars down the drain.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n5wZkOoDE ... d1eQ%3D%3D
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20231227_140850.jpg (250.91 KiB) Viewed 443 times

[johnw]

One problem EVs have is driveline losses (weight on tyres distortion of sidewall losing energy) and regenerative braking losses, the more those are mitigated, the less the weight penalty becomes.

With that sorted the dream of cruising in your 440 six pack powered motor home (centre carb is very efficient), with the monster power pack that normally runs your off grid house, solar chargers can top up the RV ready for annual holiday throughout the year, your house can be off grid using the RV battery. You don't need much lecy when you are on holiday, also If your solar panels are out, take the RV for a drive in regenerative mode, that glorious 440 six pack can run at full throttle. Alternatively drive to town in the RV, and like an XJ12, plug it into a couple of chargers, or give it to Homer Simpson to charge at work.

The battery is a very expensive asset that is simply parked up, unused, decaying slowly but inevitably over time, used or not, unlike a conventional car, it is a bit like buying a flat on a short lease.

[David Davies]

This thread has got quite a long way off Quentin’s comments on CV8s!

I’m fairly neutral on EVs but right now like for like (eg BMWs) they are very expensive in comparison and the model range is still limited. BMW Finance rates on new petrol cars are often a half to a third of new EVs. The national infrastructure and green generation capacity is a long way off to support the mass market. I can see partial EV use suits some people but it means doubling one’s fleet. When prices come down 25-30 per cent and the national infrastrucure is there hopefully it will become a simpler decision.

I can’t see many or possibly any EVs becoming classic cars though. What’s the appeal of a baterry? The sight and sound of a glorious petrol engine which has been central to the appeal of most classic cars will be a thing of the past.

[David Davies]

Correction, BMW Finance rates are 4.9% for electric or petrol. The big difference is on the price, c£83k for the cheaper type of all electric i5 and £61k for a 530e hybrid, and presumably similar differentials on other models

[AH1951]

Good idea to split this thread.

For me, the main issue with EVs isn't cost - it's convenience.
Or rather, the lack of it.

If you watch The MacMaster's YouTube videos you'll see he rather long-windedly shows the downsides of using a Porsche Taycan. (Applies to other EVs too.)
Allegedly, that car cost £120,000 and its value has dropped like a stone.
The trips he makes centre upon tedious planning, the uncertainty of there being an available and working charger at the en-route pit stops, and the sometimes high cost of charging as well as needing to have a variety of apps and payment systems, and hoping the associated network falls within his phone's reception capability.
As well as waiting for long periods of time while charging when kids would be acting up, while the bored wife wishes she'd married somebody else.
Sounds like a nightmare to me.
Especially at holiday times where there is likely to be a queue.

I'm not knocking Mojo's use of an EV as he has explained his own situation and his limited use of that car, so it works well for him.

Do watch a couple of MacMaster's videos if you have the time. Only a couple as they are very slow and repetitive.

I simply would not want an EV, even if it were to be offered to me as a gift.
All that faffing about!
No thanks!

[Richie]

As someone who has now done over 45,000 electric miles, any initial novelty has long worn off. And i still wouldn't want to revert to combustion. The Tesla 3 I had for three years / 38,000 miles has been replaced with a Tesla Y: though still good, it's not as good to drive as the 3, but far more practical.
I dare say I'd feel differently however if I wasn't able to charge at home and had to rely on woefully inadequate public infastructure. Though, with just a bit of planning, our touring holiday of Cornwall was no problem, coordinating charging with places we were visiting anyway. But such planning every week would soon become more than a chore. More rapid chargers are needed for sure.
As an aside, I can see pay per mile being introduced soon on the basis of raising funds to pay for this. As I've long said, the price of EVs will fall, but running costs will rise - no government can forgo the revenue the motorist provides.
But for me, those miles have been far more convenient than an ICE car, including absolutely no servicing needed at all. Just tyres and screenwash.
And, love em or loathe them, for better or worse, the influence of the Tesla 3 has been massive - what car of this century has had more?
It will definitely be a future classic.

[AH1951]

Yes, pay-per-mile is what they have planned for us.
Plus, I think, an 'Environmental Charge' on everything they can get away with:

Petrol.
Diesel.
Plane tickets........

[johnw]

Yes, pay-per-mile is what they have planned for us.
Plus, I think, an 'Environmental Charge' on everything they can get away with:

Petrol.
Diesel.
Plane tickets........

Pay per mile brings surveillance and control. Far worse than the bill for anyone of a slightly critical or contentious viewpoint.

I would have a Tesla for free. The car has a lot of potential uses. If the software was open, I bet you could build a fantastic mobile TIG welder power supply. I am wondering if it could also do microwelding is control thst fine? They definitely should have a Power Take Off socket. Musk has done quite a lot in a short time. Building a 33 engined vehicle that uses 5 million litres of fossil fuel per outing and getting a licence for it, in the current US political environment, Tesla truly was a stroke of genius in that context.

[felixkk]

There was an article not long ago on the future of transport and bidirectional loading- vehicle to grid (V2G), vehicle to building (V2B), vehicle to home (V2H). I didn't quite understand what the concept was, to be honest...

Pay per mile brings surveillance and control

A man walked down a street with 99 phones in a wagon. Google Maps thought it was a traffic jam
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technolo ... n-weckert/

[johnw]

There was an article not long ago on the future of transport and bidirectional loading- vehicle to grid (V2G), vehicle to building (V2B), vehicle to home (V2H). I didn't quite understand what the concept was, to be honest...

Pay per mile brings surveillance and control

A man walked down a street with 99 phones in a wagon. Google Maps thought it was a traffic jam
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technolo ... n-weckert/

The obvious question is why EVs don't have V2V jump start already. Would avoid lots of towing and C02. On cars like tge FF where there is space above the front diff. It is the ideal location for a motor for regenerative braking. 2 miles of range, 20 mph top speed would be enough for traffic lights to traffic light journeys.

Your signature is interesting Felix. If someone did 50kph on the pavement on an e-scooter with 99 phones in a rucksack during rush hour, as kids do, Google would route everyone into a massive jam!