Issue with Firefox

[KaranMK2]

Grant, I mostly reply to correct and inform you in an attempt to stop you from drawing / stating false conclusions. I am pleased that you read what I have written again and again. My JOC bandwidth on this is exhausted tonight.

Karan

[Keith]

I think this has gone on for long enough now.

There is an obvious problem with the forum on certain browsers. This is not in dispute. Indeed it is fully recognised. Zac: "it now runs in an iFrame within the main web site rather than running on it's own which is what has caused the issues.".

Grant came up with a valid suggestion: "Why can't you just get someone to take the Forum out of the website and run that on it's own like it used to be?"

The Chairman responded with: "I don’t think you understand the implications of your suggestion. No one wants to manage the platform we use for the forum / it’s had its day and needs patching up."

I think Grant fully understands the implications of his question, indeed I think that the Chairman's response shows that he is under a misapprehension. The forum could certainly be returned to "stand-alone" and it would be very easily managed.

Zac seems to be receiving unwarranted criticism for not solving this problem But as Zac says: " I don't get paid for this and have to find time between other things. I did resign from IT."

Now this is a shameful state of affairs. Zac has resigned from the IT position. Who asked him to return and sort out this problem? Can we have an answer to that?

Now, according to the JOC website, we do have an "IT Officer": Rajmattie Mangroo. Now Raj would certainly not have been voted onto this position unless she had displayed experience, skill and knowledge of IT systems, software, IT support, etc.

So can I suggest that we let Raj get on with her job and sort out this IT problem? And let Zac get on with his life? Zac is been taken avantage of; the person who should be sorting this is Rajmattie Mangroo.

Over to you Raj.

[KaranMK2]

Keith,

No one wants anything to do with the software (it is considered old hat)that the forum is based on. When this was known, Zac volunteered to keep patching it up as has been happening for years. Have you any suggestion apart from separation as doing so produces other problems that I have stated. A few example of double working as a result would be.

A) For new joining members we would have to fill in details on the main site and then having to do so on the forum.

B) For login in problems - we would have to check/amend details on the main system and then on the forum. This happens a lot.

C) For leaving or deceased members we would have to close access on the main system and then on the forum.

There is more than above.

Anyway, I must say that I consider the tone of your E-mail too coarse for my liking.

Karan

[Grant]

Grant, I mostly reply to correct and inform you in an attempt to stop you from drawing / stating false conclusions. I am pleased that you read what I have written again and again. My JOC bandwidth on this is exhausted tonight.
Karan

Keith is correct, I did only suggest moving the forum back to how it was originally Karan, Zac has kept saying he will find time when he can BUT he has resigned, When I posted this in reply to your response you felt it necessary to bring up that I am not a "Paying" member any-longer.
Why did that have anything to do with it Karan please? I am not a paying member because I felt I didn't like what the club had become any longer and I didn't like the way Kenny was pushed out and basically told to leave, and I now don't really like being told that I don't understand things when they are quotes from what people have written ie Zac "I have retired from the IT" to then be told I am incorrect and stating false conclusions. These are the sort of reasons I am happy that I am now a "Non-Paying Member".
Why is Kieth's posting too Course? It was just a summary of what has been said in the most recent posts on here Karan?

[KaranMK2]

Grant, were you not part of the reviewing team of the system we have? To change it and bring it up to date cost hence why membership income is important. I suggest you carefully read Keith’s and my emails again but from my perspective.

As I have said , let’s wait until the updates have been uploaded to see if they solve the issues. Such would be a win-win for the Club rather than only forum users with issues - is that too much to ask?

Karan

[Keith]

A) For new joining members we would have to fill in details on the main site and then having to do so on the forum.
B) For login in problems - we would have to check/amend details on the main system and then on the forum. This happens a lot.
C) For leaving or deceased members we would have to close access on the main system and then on the forum.

None of these are valid if the forum were separate from "the main site". The forum was originally intended and designed as a forum for all Jensen enthusiasts. Not just JOC members. Therefore a separate forum would continue to be just that, and very easily administered. There would be no reason whatsoever for any integration with "the main site" and thus your reasons A,B and C (above) would not enter the equation.

Anyway, I must say that I consider the tone of your E-mail too coarse for my liking.

Nothing coarse about the tone of my email! Just facts, presented carefully and concisely.

You still haven't addressed this observation:

Now, according to the JOC website, we do have an "IT Officer": Rajmattie Mangroo. Now Raj would certainly not have been voted onto this position unless she had displayed experience, skill and knowledge of IT systems, software, IT support, etc.

So can I suggest that we let Raj get on with her job and sort out this IT problem? And let Zac get on with his life? Zac is been taken avantage of; the person who should be sorting this is Rajmattie Mangroo.

So let's hear from Raj, and what she intends to do to resolve this situation. Let's hear from the JOC IT Officer.

No need for you to continue with this problem Karan, you have enough on your plate. Let the JOC IT Officer step up to the plate!

Come on Raj, over to you!

[KaranMK2]

Keith,

Sorry but perhaps you are now lagging on what we have as an overall system / operation. Having commissioned and validated many large IT software system, I would personally bin what we have (forum) but 99% of it works fine so it makes good sense to keep it going for as long as we can. Your have extracted and used bits from my post thus losing the context. I consider your use of language / words and inferences in sentences to be unfair and ill deserved. I politely ask for your reconsideration. I dear say that Raj will revert in due course. However, I think 2-3 years running Raj has stepped up to the plate when no one else did and was elected. With volunteered support from Zac on the forum software all of us have had a working IT system (including forum usage) providing service to members, users and has added improvements to the overall system for other club functions. If this did not happen I dread to think of the alternative . I am supportive of a holistic IT approach for reasons I have already outlined. I am left wondering why it is easier by a few to criticise rather than say thanks and offer support. After all, we are suppose to be the friendly club. In my opinion, this should be to all members, users and supporters - right?

As I have said previously, we should wait to see if the updates work ? In the meantime, it’s a mystery with Firefox as I have not had any issue since I have started to use / test it. I will do so with Chrome too.

Karan

[felixkk]

Is it not possible to switch software, to load the content on a new/current platform?

[Mark1Stu]

I can’t help but wonder whether these patches and work arounds are half the problem with the current forum operating arrangement. While they may solve the current problems (or more likely just some..), it’s adds complication and prevents subsequent system updates being successful and glitch free. It also ties in Zac to future work as he’s the only guy who understands the workarounds he’s devised…which now need to be tweaked again.

So, a bit like ground hog day, we get to experience the joy all over again.

[KaranMK2]

You’ve made a very good point Stu that is very much on my mind. I don’t think it is sustainable and makes it harder / almost impossible to handover as patches and workarounds has been the club’s approach for yonks. Documenting patches and workarounds is essential for seamless change. This is not a criticism of Zac in anyway.

Karan

[zacmarshall]

If it doesn’t work for you in Firefox then use another browser. Firefox is used by less than 3% of users, although for the JOC sites this increases to 9%. There are many web applications that work better in one browser than another, others that actually won’t allow you to open the site using a specific browser or unless you use the browser they recommend.

Firefox worked OK when the new website when live, these issues are due to changes to Firefox. It works fine on other browsers (other than issues with all browsers with scrolling etc referred to later). Firefox works fine for me on the laptop but does cause an issue with my android phone (I installed Firefox because something didn’t work in Chrome…)

I am investigating – I have created a new test install of WordPress (main site) and the forum software and will integrate them using the latest install instructions (which seem to be the same as used when I updated it last time). I will continue with this during the week and over the bank holiday weekend.

What was agreed was that I would see if I could get the integration to work using the software recommended by the IT company, if not, we would switch to the forum not being run in an iFrame and the web site header being part of the forum header, which is the way I would have preferred to do it if given the choice. The WordPress add-on that enables the sign-on uses cookies will still work.

I did suggest running the forum on its own without the headings etc while I sort things out but this was rejected.

phpBB, the software used for the forum is not 'old hat' although forums themselves could be seen as old hat having largely been replaced by social media. phpBB is still regularly maintained with regular releases, it is still the most widely used forum software and offers many features not available in other forum software. I thought the issue was that the IT company was basically a WordPress house with no knowledge of phpBB.

The customisations made come into two groups
1. Usability – there are extensions used to enable forum categories to be collapsed / expanded, and the extension I mentioned earlier written by myself which allows for large images to be uploaded / rotated as needed and resized. Without these we would need 2 or 3 times the storage for images.
2. Integration with the WordPress site – this is where the majority of the changes are and these are the ones that cause problems (which I am investigating). Part of this is the style used which includes bespoke content for the club (links to rules . magazines etc). These changes are included in a specific theme I developed for the club and cannot be switched in and out, this is as per the installation instructions.
There should be code to sort out scrolling / positioning issues within the iFrame but for some reason this keeps causing the screen to refresh, hence it currently not being used.
These extensions can be switched on and off as needed (other than integration with WordPress, which could be switched out but would change the way the forum appears), switching them off returns to core functionality.

The only workaround in place is that introduced this weekend to fix an issue with the multiple upload of images. I will revisit this when the next updates are made.
Someone complained about the patches, any IT software needs to be regularly patched to keep it up to date, the forum has the latest phpBB updates installed.

Switching to other software
This was tried as part of Raj and the IT company switching to WordPress, they couldn’t make it work, they couldn’t migrate the data and they couldn’t replicate a lot of the functionality that we are used to.

I was then asked at relatively short notice to upgrade the forum to the latest version which also involved me redeveloping the image extension so that it worked in the more modern way of handling extensions used in the later versions of phpBB, in the pervious version of the forum the image upload functionality was added to the code, with the new version it is done as an extension so can be switched in and out.

Please note that this is in no way a criticism of Raj, Raj does a good job with IT, is very good at the day to day management of the club’s IT systems and has far more patience than I ever had. I have also worked (with Raj) with the IT company used and have no complaints about them, unlike the bunch of muppets that the club used after the system was developed and the IT company handed over support.

I did indeed resign from IT but am still happy to help, and know the forum software well.

When I resigned, I made the point there were two parts to the job, the normal day to day work, and the more technical / development / support part, and that these could be done by two separate people, maybe with the more technical part outsourced, as is done by many clubs. This is what was done.

[KaranMK2]

Hi Zac,

Thanks for the detailed reply.

I am really interested in this “I would see if I could get the integration to work using the software recommended by the IT company” I know you are busy but when you have time. As it would be good to get the 9% of Firefox users content.

Regards,

Karan

[KaranMK2]

Hi Zac, I know you are very busy but wondering if you have had a chance to address as per my last post on the subject. Just want closure on this one way or another. It has been quite on matter for a couple of weeks so I am not sure if it’s resolved or if affected users have a work around, given up, etc.
Kr, Karan

[zacmarshall]

I have installed WordPress and the forum on a test server and have been working to integrate them as per the add-ons specified by the IT company. I need to copy some more of the scripts over from the live system for the amendments needed to make the forum work within WordPress, hopefully will get back to it on Sunday if not before.

I will then see if I can recreate the issue, check for the latest versions of the scripts and see if that does the trick.

I've had an infection for the last couple of weeks which has meant that I haven't been sleeping, I'm starting to recover from that so should make some more progress.

I have trouble recreating it as Firefox works fine for me, so once everything is set up I will be in touch with some people who have the issue to test using the forum test site.

Bear with me folks.

[Mark1Stu]

Anyone else having problems trying to private message someone by clicking on their user name in a thread?

Btw, as I continue not to use Firefox, how about changing the heading of this thread to: Forum problems and work arounds/solutions. Cus the problem ain’t just Firefox.