This is someting I often ask myself, having owned an FF (with an E-series , high compression 383) and now an Interceptor (with a J series "woofly" 440).
I had looked at fitting a 484 into my FF (a 383 block with a 440 crank I believe) but got concerned about the fuel consumption..
Very interested in all your views....
360, 383 or 440 - which is best for the beast?
Fair point there!
When I had my FF, I did get concerned about fuel economy (or lack of) and, at one point, fitted an economy cam and a 500cfm carb. The performance was totally flat and there was nothing above 2,800rpm...smooth though.
I go for the 440 over the 383 - more torque and - when running well- very smooth and quiet.
When I had my FF, I did get concerned about fuel economy (or lack of) and, at one point, fitted an economy cam and a 500cfm carb. The performance was totally flat and there was nothing above 2,800rpm...smooth though.
I go for the 440 over the 383 - more torque and - when running well- very smooth and quiet.
Hi Richie
When I had my FF and was looking for more torque, I looked at a number of stroker kits, the biggest taking it to 500 cu in (I think a 400 block with a 440 crank).
I know of a 454 in a Bristol 411, which is very fast...
FYI, I have reproduced below the bits that were going to be used to take my 383 to 484. The garage was going to use my heads, intake manifolds and ancillaries. I never got it done because I sold my FF last year and bought my J series Interceptor, which has a standard 440. I have been thinking about "stroking" my 440 for more torque but I have concerns about engine cooling and the effect of all that torque on the drivetrain.
I was going to get Martin Barnes of the American Car Care Centre in King's Cross to do the work. He is an excellent engine builder and really knows his stuff when it comes to Chryslers. I think he has a 383 block hanging around, waiting for someone to do this conversion on a Jensen or Bristol.
"To build 484 B/Block Chrysler
using your heads , intake manifold and ancillaries
Parts required
Mopar forged special crank
Manley Billet con rods 6.765
Ross pistons
Speed pro moly rings
Clevlite bearings
3 way timing gear kit
High volume oil pump
440/4 barrel camshaft kit
Full fel-pro gasket set
800 AVS carter t series
MSD Blaster ignition kit
B & M Flex plate
Second hand 383 Block ( prepared and bored)
Internally balanced all moving parts
2 engine mounts
Oil gallery modifications
New sump
Heat shielding
Wire loom protector
Fuel line refit
Crankshaft damper
Core plug kit"
When I had my FF and was looking for more torque, I looked at a number of stroker kits, the biggest taking it to 500 cu in (I think a 400 block with a 440 crank).
I know of a 454 in a Bristol 411, which is very fast...
FYI, I have reproduced below the bits that were going to be used to take my 383 to 484. The garage was going to use my heads, intake manifolds and ancillaries. I never got it done because I sold my FF last year and bought my J series Interceptor, which has a standard 440. I have been thinking about "stroking" my 440 for more torque but I have concerns about engine cooling and the effect of all that torque on the drivetrain.
I was going to get Martin Barnes of the American Car Care Centre in King's Cross to do the work. He is an excellent engine builder and really knows his stuff when it comes to Chryslers. I think he has a 383 block hanging around, waiting for someone to do this conversion on a Jensen or Bristol.
"To build 484 B/Block Chrysler
using your heads , intake manifold and ancillaries
Parts required
Mopar forged special crank
Manley Billet con rods 6.765
Ross pistons
Speed pro moly rings
Clevlite bearings
3 way timing gear kit
High volume oil pump
440/4 barrel camshaft kit
Full fel-pro gasket set
800 AVS carter t series
MSD Blaster ignition kit
B & M Flex plate
Second hand 383 Block ( prepared and bored)
Internally balanced all moving parts
2 engine mounts
Oil gallery modifications
New sump
Heat shielding
Wire loom protector
Fuel line refit
Crankshaft damper
Core plug kit"
For information regarding more sensible combinations see
http://www.440source.com/strokerkits.htm
Seems like you are going to a lot of bother to pick the one that offers the least (just my opinion); go with a 400 or 440 block.
Regards
Andy
http://www.440source.com/strokerkits.htm
Seems like you are going to a lot of bother to pick the one that offers the least (just my opinion); go with a 400 or 440 block.
Regards
Andy
You guy's have too much money to burn! Why no import a ready built crate engine from the States and bolt it in?
http://www.hughesengines.com/
Mike
http://www.hughesengines.com/
Mike
All this talk of big cube engines started me hunting for a little more info. A 440 RB crank will not go straight in a 383/400 B block as the main bearings are different diameters and the counterweights need machining to clear the block. Easiest option is to have the crank machined to fit the B block rather than have the block line bored to fit the RB crank. Therefore, if the crank is modified to fit the block and the block is damaged, you can then fit the crank in a replacement block easily.
A 440 crank in a 383 block comes out at 426ci, in the 400 as it starts out with a slightly larger bore than the 440 by 0.022" it goes to 444ci.
Using the 440 crank, overbore a std 383 block to +0.030" you get 432ci, +0.060" you get 438ci.
Using the 440 crank, overbore a std 400 block to +0.030" you get 451ci, +0.060" you get 457ci.
Not particularly big increases in capacity for the work involved considering that a +0.060" overbore on a 440 RB engine gives 452ci. The main advantages of using a 400 B block is the reduction in weight of the block itself and a slight increase in stiffness as it is 0.745" lower in deck height. Better still is the reduction in weight of the pistons and con-rods over the RB components. Not a great advantage in a road car that is going to spend most of it's life under 3000rpm.
If you are going to all this expense, then by offset grinding the crank at the same time as machining the crank to fit, this gives increased stroke and more capacity hence the 474, 496ci engines. Much above that you are looking at an aftermarket crank and going well into racing teritory and big expense.
Something else to think about is the availability of B & RB engines in this country, they're not exactly piled high in the scrapyards so most people are looking at improving the performance of what they have. An engine rebuild to bring a 30+ year old engine up to a good standard with a few improvements for modern fuels etc would probably suit the majority of people, mainly the ease of starting and improvement in performance compared to the tired old engine. Why go to great expense?
Mike
For those of you that are interested...............
Bore Stroke Cid
B Block
4.125" x 3.375" 361
4.250" x 3.375" 383
4.342" x 3.375" 400
RB Block
4.180" x 3.750" 413
4.250" x 3.750" 426
4.320" x 3.750" 440
Cid Formula; Bore x Bore x Stroke x No of Cyls x 0.785
A 440 crank in a 383 block comes out at 426ci, in the 400 as it starts out with a slightly larger bore than the 440 by 0.022" it goes to 444ci.
Using the 440 crank, overbore a std 383 block to +0.030" you get 432ci, +0.060" you get 438ci.
Using the 440 crank, overbore a std 400 block to +0.030" you get 451ci, +0.060" you get 457ci.
Not particularly big increases in capacity for the work involved considering that a +0.060" overbore on a 440 RB engine gives 452ci. The main advantages of using a 400 B block is the reduction in weight of the block itself and a slight increase in stiffness as it is 0.745" lower in deck height. Better still is the reduction in weight of the pistons and con-rods over the RB components. Not a great advantage in a road car that is going to spend most of it's life under 3000rpm.
If you are going to all this expense, then by offset grinding the crank at the same time as machining the crank to fit, this gives increased stroke and more capacity hence the 474, 496ci engines. Much above that you are looking at an aftermarket crank and going well into racing teritory and big expense.
Something else to think about is the availability of B & RB engines in this country, they're not exactly piled high in the scrapyards so most people are looking at improving the performance of what they have. An engine rebuild to bring a 30+ year old engine up to a good standard with a few improvements for modern fuels etc would probably suit the majority of people, mainly the ease of starting and improvement in performance compared to the tired old engine. Why go to great expense?
Mike
For those of you that are interested...............
Bore Stroke Cid
B Block
4.125" x 3.375" 361
4.250" x 3.375" 383
4.342" x 3.375" 400
RB Block
4.180" x 3.750" 413
4.250" x 3.750" 426
4.320" x 3.750" 440
Cid Formula; Bore x Bore x Stroke x No of Cyls x 0.785
Very interesting stuff (I only now came across your reply!).
I'm thinking about buying a second Interceptor and installing a 542cu in block (i.e. a stroked 440), which will be in a very low state of tune.
I am hoping that this will result in adequate torque at low engine speeds.
Will keep the forum posted.
If anyone has any thoughths about this, please let me know.
I'm thinking about buying a second Interceptor and installing a 542cu in block (i.e. a stroked 440), which will be in a very low state of tune.
I am hoping that this will result in adequate torque at low engine speeds.
Will keep the forum posted.
If anyone has any thoughths about this, please let me know.
-
BKB
- V8 Lover
- Posts: 14
- Joined: Wed May 24, 2006 9:56 pm
- Location: cardiff by the Sea CA USA
- Contact:
adequate performance
I think either displacement (383 or 440) is fine for power production. The choice of components will determine driveability for the most part! In my case I stuck with the 440 displacement and found an easy 500 crank hp. The big problem is the rest of the goodies! The stock trans can take the punishment for a while... but the Salisbury diff needs help to handle 400+lbs of torque. The stock rear springs will also give a lot of axle wind-up... But its sure a lot of fun!
Bruce
2210/9272 MPI 440
Bruce
2210/9272 MPI 440
6 bbls of fun
-
Derek Jose
- Posts: 23
- Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 6:48 am
- Location: Christchurch New Zealand
Stroker Kit Installed in 383
I have recently joined this forum and wish to add my comments on the "Stroker"chat.
I am in the process of installing the engine back into my Interceptor after stroking it from 383 to 451 cubic inches. I started with a stroker kit from 440 Source. I bored the block to 060 and had a set of custom Ross Racing pistons made. The block has been blueprinted and decked to give a compression ratio of 9.6:1 (as far as you can go on NZ gas). The 346 heads have been ported and fitted with larger inlet valves as well as all new hardware. They now flow sufficiently to provide 600BHP. I had a new cam developed with torque in mind. The motor is equipped with a high flow water pump, thermostat, fuel pump and oil pump. Roller rockers and moly push rods finish the internals. Phillip Barker found a Six Pack in England which I have rebuilt and installed. I have also fitted a set of stainless headers with 2.5" collectors, flowmaster 50 series delta flow mufflers and a 2.5"system. The original cooling fans have been replaced with a 19" electric fan and shroud. The 727 trans has been overhauled along with the convertor. The engine and convertor have all been balanced.
Once assembled I had the engine run in and tuned on an engine dino. It is producing 450 BHP @ 5300 rpm and 522 ft/lbs torque at 4000 rpm. At 2500 rpm it is producing 400 ft/lbs.
I hope to have it back in the car this weekend.
Derek
I am in the process of installing the engine back into my Interceptor after stroking it from 383 to 451 cubic inches. I started with a stroker kit from 440 Source. I bored the block to 060 and had a set of custom Ross Racing pistons made. The block has been blueprinted and decked to give a compression ratio of 9.6:1 (as far as you can go on NZ gas). The 346 heads have been ported and fitted with larger inlet valves as well as all new hardware. They now flow sufficiently to provide 600BHP. I had a new cam developed with torque in mind. The motor is equipped with a high flow water pump, thermostat, fuel pump and oil pump. Roller rockers and moly push rods finish the internals. Phillip Barker found a Six Pack in England which I have rebuilt and installed. I have also fitted a set of stainless headers with 2.5" collectors, flowmaster 50 series delta flow mufflers and a 2.5"system. The original cooling fans have been replaced with a 19" electric fan and shroud. The 727 trans has been overhauled along with the convertor. The engine and convertor have all been balanced.
Once assembled I had the engine run in and tuned on an engine dino. It is producing 450 BHP @ 5300 rpm and 522 ft/lbs torque at 4000 rpm. At 2500 rpm it is producing 400 ft/lbs.
I hope to have it back in the car this weekend.
Derek
Last edited by Derek Jose on Fri Sep 29, 2006 12:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
INT lll - 133 5498
JH - 1143 14212
JH - 1143 14212
-
BKB
- V8 Lover
- Posts: 14
- Joined: Wed May 24, 2006 9:56 pm
- Location: cardiff by the Sea CA USA
- Contact:
torque hp and displacement
Derek
Stroked B blocks are getting pretty popular (US Mopar events) these days! Good high RPM capability (7Krpm easy vs 6Krpm on the 440 with "stock" oiling). If you dont go overboard on the cam, torque production at low (driving) RPM can be pretty decent as well! Id like to see a timeslip for your combination once you get it dialed in on the road! Im still in search of a track to re-time my INT now that its converted to MPI. They bulldozed the local track (after 50years of continuous operation...) Id expect a good low 13/high 12 out of it, but be very careful of your differential! That seems to be the weak link when out for a spirited drive!
Bruce
Stroked B blocks are getting pretty popular (US Mopar events) these days! Good high RPM capability (7Krpm easy vs 6Krpm on the 440 with "stock" oiling). If you dont go overboard on the cam, torque production at low (driving) RPM can be pretty decent as well! Id like to see a timeslip for your combination once you get it dialed in on the road! Im still in search of a track to re-time my INT now that its converted to MPI. They bulldozed the local track (after 50years of continuous operation...) Id expect a good low 13/high 12 out of it, but be very careful of your differential! That seems to be the weak link when out for a spirited drive!
Bruce
6 bbls of fun
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Derek Jose
- Posts: 23
- Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 6:48 am
- Location: Christchurch New Zealand
Timeslip
Hi Bruce - I hope to give the Interceptor a run down the strip in Feb 2007. I will post the times straight after the event. You mention the diff is the weak link. Have you had experience with this problem, if so what is a good fix. That is a smart looking injection setup shown on your website. Do you supply a unit suitable for a BB/350 Pontiac.
Derek
Derek
INT lll - 133 5498
JH - 1143 14212
JH - 1143 14212