Tyres - same old topic but help needed

[Richie]

It is not only your insurer. In some countries it is illigal to drive such a car and once involved in a shunt you may be held responsible for the accident whatever the cause, also for foreign visitors.
Kees Oudesluijs

Great advice, but thankfully, not illegal in the UK

[ascotts1]

It is not only your insurer. In some countries it is illigal to drive such a car and once involved in a shunt you may be held responsible for the accident whatever the cause, also for foreign visitors.
Kees Oudesluijs

Great advice, but thankfully, not illegal in the UK

I believe you will find some very strong misconceptions regarding tyre speed ratings and what is legal for your car, unless you are planning on driving on the unrestricted speed limited roads of Germany, most ( all??) other countries have speed restrictions of maximum 130kmh/81mph and therefore all tyres rated above that limit are legal. It is infact ILLEGAL to drive beyond those speeds and your insurance is potentially null and void if you have an accident and it can be proven that you were travelling in excess of the speed limit, not because of the speed rating of your tyres. What is illegal with tyres however, is to have an insufficient LOAD rating tyre and therefore you need to carefully check that the load rating is at a minimum of what is designated by the factory or on your registration documents.

[Richie]

Wise words and well put.
Thankfully, whilst there are precious few V rated tyres to fit our cars available, there are loads of quality H and lower rated tyres which also have the appropriate load rating.

[Jorrocks]

For absolute best quality and look ( but yes, quite expensive ), Michelin XWX Radial 215/70/VR15 ( I have just fitted these on my copper MkIII )

Did you experience any issues when balancing these? I had a set fitted yesterday, and the amount of weight required was ridiculous, 120 -170 grammes per wheel! On the balancer you could clearly see them oscillating.

I should maybe add that they're new stock so current date, and came straight from supplier so I assume will have been stored correctly.

Eric.

[kees]

It is not only your insurer. In some countries it is illigal to drive such a car and once involved in a shunt you may be held responsible for the accident whatever the cause, also for foreign visitors.
Kees Oudesluijs

Great advice, but thankfully, not illegal in the UK

I believe you will find some very strong misconceptions regarding tyre speed ratings and what is legal for your car, unless you are planning on driving on the unrestricted speed limited roads of Germany, most ( all??) other countries have speed restrictions of maximum 130kmh/81mph and therefore all tyres rated above that limit are legal. It is infact ILLEGAL to drive beyond those speeds and your insurance is potentially null and void if you have an accident and it can be proven that you were travelling in excess of the speed limit, not because of the speed rating of your tyres. What is illegal with tyres however, is to have an insufficient LOAD rating tyre and therefore you need to carefully check that the load rating is at a minimum of what is designated by the factory or on your registration documents.

It is not a question of maximum allowed speed in a country. The problem being that if a lower speed rating of tyres is fitted the car does not meet type approval any more. The only exception being indeed winter tires. Same story in some countries with alternative steering wheels like Moto-Lita/Mountney or alternative wheels, non standard tire size, brake, suspension, tuning parts etc., unless homologated.
Some countries are more strict than others, Germany with their TüV being particularly difficult.
Kees Oudesluijs

[kees]

For absolute best quality and look ( but yes, quite expensive ), Michelin XWX Radial 215/70/VR15 ( I have just fitted these on my copper MkIII )

Did you experience any issues when balancing these? I had a set fitted yesterday, and the amount of weight required was ridiculous, 120 -170 grammes per wheel! On the balancer you could clearly see them oscillating.

I should maybe add that they're new stock so current date, and came straight from supplier so I assume will have been stored correctly.

Eric.

If they were visibly oscillating the tyres should have been rejected or were wrongly fitted. Were they "run in" before balancing?
Kees Oudesluijs

[Jorrocks]

Kees,
Do you mean were they run on the car first? If so, then no, they were fitted, seated then balanced. The fitter (At a race tyre outfit at Silverstone, not a High Street place) tried moving then remounting each tyre without any improvement. He suggested I drive a hundred or so miles and he'll rebalance. I also called Michelin who didn't seem overly concerned, suggesting I pump the tyres to their max pressure, leave them for 24 hours, then reset pressures, drive for a while then rebalance. Seems like a right faff for a premium brand tyre.... I'll see how it goes!

Eric.

[kees]

Kees,
Do you mean were they run on the car first? If so, then no, they were fitted, seated then balanced. The fitter (At a race tyre outfit at Silverstone, not a High Street place) tried moving then remounting each tyre without any improvement. He suggested I drive a hundred or so miles and he'll rebalance. I also called Michelin who didn't seem overly concerned, suggesting I pump the tyres to their max pressure, leave them for 24 hours, then reset pressures, drive for a while then rebalance. Seems like a right faff for a premium brand tyre.... I'll see how it goes!

Eric.

A tyre fitter I often got my tyres from has a rig than runs the fitted tyres under load at a specific pressure (probably high) and speed for some time before he started balancing the wheels. He also checked the wheels without tyres first for roundness, unbalance, out of true etc.
What bothers me is that the fitted tyres showed to be visibly unround, which they shouldn't. One should not really clearly see any wobble, sideways or up and down. The limit is probably around 1 or 2mm.
120-170 gr. balancing weights is not overly excessive especially if that is the total per wheel, divided usually in two places on the rim. If they are glued to the inside of the rim instead of clamped to the outside it is usually more weight that is needed for dynamic balancing.
Kees Oudesluijs

[Steve Payne]

I have seen a lot more than 200g on some Pirelli P4000's, In one case because he was fitting so much weight the tyre fitter presumed there was a problem with the wheel so he removed the tyre and checked the wheel, but sadly the tyre was the problem.

My guess would be as these are made in low volumes they are probably hand made. I am sure the figure I heard quoted by Pirelli was they used to run about 150 tyres in a batch and that would take them up to 3 years to sell.

How many cars used this size of tyre and how often do they need replacing? I am only on my 3rd set after 100k miles.

Steve

[Richie]

Thousands of cars did - and many current production vehicles still do - use the size. Precious few with a V speed rating though. Thankfully, its quite legal to use tyres with a lower speed rating. On the basis that they're significantly more expensive than the wide range of alternative suitable tyres out there, I'm not at all surprised therefore that Pirelli struggled to sell 'em...

[Hardy]

My guess would be as these are made in low volumes they are probably hand made. I am sure the figure I heard quoted by Pirelli was they used to run about 150 tyres in a batch and that would take them up to 3 years to sell. How many cars used this size of tyre and how often do they need replacing? I am only on my 3rd set after 100k miles.

Agreed ! The same problem exists with the very special Michelin TRX tyres, popular on luxury cars of the '80ies, i.e. Citroen CX, BMW 5 / 6 / 7 series. I ran a set of 180/65 R390 (metric dimension) TRX's on a '81 Saab 900. The TRX tyres worked ok on dry surfaces, but were rather difficult in the wet. I even spun the Saab off the deceleration strip of the autobahn, but luckily between two guide poles to stop on the grass, no damage to the car and no impact crater
The TRX are so awfully expensive, Michelin made a batch every few years, so you could end up with a difference of 10 or 12 years in tyre age between the front and back wheels No wonder everybody changed to standard rims !

=> That's why i would recommend all-weather-tyres made for current vehicles, there you get modern casing design and a up-to-date rubber compound.

[Anton001]

Just for information, there is a well-known (non-)issue with the Vredesteins, whereby the sidewall distorts with radial grooving after a short period of use. This can be unsightly, but is apparently perfectly safe and due to the way the plies of the tyre behave.

Picture via PistonHeads:

I have noticed the same on my Vredestein tyres and cannot imagine that this is a safe situation.

[kees]

According to Vredestein this does not present any safety issues. However several friends of mine did experience severe balancing issues with these tyres from new which led to replacing the tyres (under warranty) several times. Notably on Triumph TR and Austin-Healey 3000.
Kees Oudesluijs

[AlistairT]

Have a look at the Longstone tyres website, as you said, prices have gone up quite a bit over the last few years..

[Chris_R]

Also have a look at Blockley tyres. I have them on my Interceptor and also now on my Daimler. As far as I know the only manufacturer / supplier that offers a 1,000 mile money back guarantee if you're not happy. All their tyres also are pre-balanced with a mark to show the fitter where to fit them on the rim to take into account the weight of the valve.