Sale of new Petrol & Diesel only cars to be banned from 2035

[Chris_R]

Reported today by The Telegraph is that Boris Johnson is planning to bring forward the date for the ban of new petrol only & diesel only cars by 5 years to 2035 to tackle air pollution levels, in particular nitrogen dioxides.
Hybrid cars that combine petrol & electric motors are not included in the ban.

[AH1951]

That's interesting, Chris.
So we can expect a surge in sales of diesel and petrol cars just before the ban, then the collapse of the new car industry after 2035 as drivers try to keep their existing cars on the road for as long as possible.

[Chris_R]

I think not Adrian. I think that in around 10 years or so there will be no new cars with only petrol or diesel power. I think by then they will all be either hybrid or all electric. There are similar bans coming in other countries in Europe with various dates and manufacturers will be making cars for all the markets. I think I'm correct that Volvo have already made the switch and all their cars now are either hybrid or fully electric. All the other manufacturers are going the same way.

[AH1951]

You could be right.
I suppose hybrids are still being allowed because pure electric vehicles are not practical for everyone.
And after 2035 I expect there will be measures introduced to nudge people into disposing of their petrol or diesel cars, such as setting road fund licence at £2,000-00/year.

[Steve Payne]

My Guess legislation will make driving ICE powered vehicles in and around built up areas more and more difficult unless you are willing to pay an additional environmental charge or what ever they want to call it.

In truth most of use could use an electric vehicle for our day to day use, the problem is longer journeys need more planning and charging takes a lot longer than putting in another 15 gallons of Petrol or Diesel.

Hopefully as Hybrids and electric vehicles become more common the governments will leave classics alone so we can still use them as freely as we do now. The problem might be places to refuel. If we are using less Petrol and Diesel as a country I am sure we will see a lot of petrol stations shutting.

Steve

[Richie]

It's kind of ironic isn't it. Right now, it's electric cars the have the (lack of) range problem.
Tomorrow, it'll be ICE cars.

[mojo]

Reported today by The Telegraph is that Boris Johnson is planning to bring forward the date for the ban of new petrol only & diesel only cars by 5 years to 2035 to tackle air pollution levels, in particular nitrogen dioxides.

Yeah - yet another politician telling us what someone else will do, ten years after his current term finishes? I'm not interested in hearing what he thinks someone else will do.

What's he going to do today to make it so that there is a charging infrastructure for the ordinary person who lives in an ordinary city street? That's a more pressing need than telling us what he thinks will happen in 15 years time.

[AH1951]

It will be interesting to see how people react to buying whatever is offered.
I would never choose to own a pure electric car because of its inability to go anywhere, anytime, all day long, at instant demand. I would feel constrained.
I would very reluctantly own a hybrid.

[AH1951]

Screenshot_20200203-162839_Samsung Internet.jpg (93.69 KiB) Viewed 7382 times

Screenshot_20200203-163824_Samsung Internet.jpg (74.33 KiB) Viewed 7374 times

Screenshot_20200203-170240_Samsung Internet.jpg (36.96 KiB) Viewed 7364 times

[MikeWilliams]

At present major car manufacturers are still developing completely brand new engines, so they don't think that ICE will be phased out any time soon.

I also understand the carbon footprint of a new 100% electric car is about double that for a purely ICE. In use the electric is better for the environment, but the two lines cross at about the time the batteries need to be replaced. In short, its all a load of rubbish.

Mike

[Chris_R]

Several European countries have announced the ban of sale of solely ICE cars at dates varying from 2025 to 2040. These are Norway (2025), Denmark, Ireland, Netherlands, Slovenia & Sweden (all 2030), UK & France (2040) with reportedly the UK bringing it forward to 2035. At the moment none of these bans are legally enforceable under EU law but Denmark, backed by 10 other member states, has now proposed to the European Commission that member states can enforce such a ban or that there should be an EU wide policy to ban them after 2030. Of course that is just a proposal (and of course now the UK will have no input to that proposal) but proposals like these do have a habit of becoming reality and it may happen and if it does then any cars made in the UK for export to the EU will have to comply, regardless of whatever the UK might want to do and I don't see a situation where any of the manufacturers will make one type of car for the EU and a different type for the UK only. We don't have any of our own manufacturers any more that could serve a different type of UK market. If VW only make electric cars by 2030 and you want a VW you'll have 2 choices. Go electric or buy something else (probably also electric by then anyway).
Manufacturers are spending huge sums on electrification of their product lines. I think I remember seeing that VW plan to invest $30billion on electrifying its entire range by 2030. I've also seen figures of $11billion for Daimler, $6.5billion for BMW, Fiat another €9billion. Peugeot & Renault also have huge investment plans. These are eyewatering spending plans, they wouldn't be doing this if they didn't think the solely ICE engined car has had its time. This is not an evolution, more of a revolution. Whether the countries will be able to keep up with electricity generation is another question completely but the manufacturers are responding rapidly to the political narrative.

Separately, cities are introducing their own bans. Only zero emission vehicles (ZEV) will be allowed in certain streets in Oxford City Centre free of charge. It's only about 5 or 6 streets so far but it is envisaged to widen over time. Others will need to pay £10. London hasn't gone quite that far with its ULEZ but the expectation is that the rules on that will tighten over time. Other cities around Europe are also introducing bans of different types.

Oxford's ZEV zone does not exempt historic cars. The FBHVC negotiated with TFL that historic cars would be exempt from the London ULEZ but reported last week is that Brighton and Hove Council are considering a clean air zone that would cover the area including Madiera Drive where the annual Veteran Car Run finishes and many other classic car runs also finish. So far they have refused to rule out exemptions for historic cars putting the future of the Veteran Car Run, and other historic car events, in doubt.
The FBHVC is maintaining a watching brief on the various proposals around the country and will lobby for exemptions but as there is no Government guidance on these clean air zones each authority can do almost as it pleases in this respect.

Already though in Norway electric cars outsell ICE powered cars and petrol stations are ripping out petrol pumps and putting in charging points, some not selling petrol at all any more. As other countries catch up a similar scenario will no doubt emerge. Even now in some parts of the country you may have to drive many miles to find a petrol station. Over time that will make it more and more difficult to refuel ICE cars. For sure, using historic cars is going to get tougher. I hope it won't get impossible, that would be a shame but I can envisage a time when it becomes socially unacceptable to be using an ICE powered car, including historic cars, unless you are going to a car show or on an organised historic event.

[JHV8]

It's all being rushed without proper planning an therefore wrong and non evironmentally friendly outcomes further down the line. 10 to 15 year old battery cars will be toxic to dispose of and will not be re-sellable because the batteries will be finished and the OBC will be failing, so no second hand market.

I always thought if the car makers got together and with the Petrol companies they could design a standard battery that could be leased to car owners and changed by a robot system at a "fuel station" (owned by Petrol companies). You'd drive in and have your battery(ies) robot changed in around 10 minutes and contiunue on your way with 100% charge. The batteries taken out are put into charge / check condition racks. Rinse and repeat.

No more range problems. Petrol companies have an incentive to move from fossil to electric energy. Batteries looked after and taken out of circulation when exhausted.
Also because there are battery charging stations all over the country constantly storing energy the inherant problem with green renewable power production in that its only availble when the wind, wave, sun etc can now be stored somewhere when demand is not there.

But no we have politicians knee jerk reactions to vocal not really informed prols sending us down a path that we will find out is worse than doing nothing. But that will be someone elses problem.

[RAP72]

Mr Johnson said the ban on selling new petrol and diesel cars would come even earlier than 2035, if possible.
Hybrid vehicles are also now being included in the proposals, which were originally announced in July 2017.
People will only be able to buy electric or hydrogen cars and vans, once the ban comes into effect.
The change in plans, which will be subject to a consultation, comes after experts warned the previous target date of 2040 would still leave old conventional cars on the roads following the clean-up date of 2050.

Hydrogen Cars and Lorries - what could go wrong? ? Sales will be booming

[colin7673]

Honestly as my age I don't think I need to worry

[Chris_R]

Someone should question Mr Johnson as to where all the lithium for all these batteries will come from. I just read an article that suggests that if all the cars today were replaced by lithium battery powered cars that the entire worlds reserves of lithium would be used up in around 50 years. Not taking into account all the other needs for lithium that is.
The powers that be, not just ours, have not really thought this through properly and just jumped on the battery powered vehicle bandwagon and ignored the question of exhausting the world of yet another material!
Great, we'll have good air quality and no climate change - but we won't have any transportation because we've used up all the fuel. So that's a good idea then! Oh yes of course, we'll all go back to horse power and have horse magnolia in all the streets and it'll take 5 days to get across the country.