Heads off or engine removal

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AndrewP
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Heads off or engine removal

Post by AndrewP »

Whilst I have a bit of spare time, Ive fitted the Harrington bumpers (what a PITA) but finally fitted and looking OK on the car, my mind has moved to the next thing.

A while ago when in the US, I purchased amongst other bits, a full gasket set, a new cam, followers and timing gear set.

I've confirmed that I still have the nylon gear set on mine when the sump was off last and so this needs to be rectified ASAP and so whilst doing that, I'll put the new cam and followers in.
I'd also like to pull the heads off as I want to assess the valves as I have a slight leak on two cylinders (have performed a leakdown test) and so Id like to give the heads a spruce up (clean-up, check and get the valves re-cut/lapped in).
So weighing up the options, there's a lot of effort in getting the heads off (and the associated parts that need removing whilst in the car) vs. just pulling the engine and getting good access to everything and also perhaps try to neaten up the engine bay whilst the motor is out?

Id like some guidance between the effort in

scenario #1 - Getting to the point of being able to remove the heads (i.e Im expecting exhaust off = snapped studs) ~ I know one of the headers has a crack in it, drain radiator, degas aircon etc. etc.

scenario #2 - Bugger it and remove engine and do 'all those jobs' when the motor is out (is it 'that' much more effort?)

I've removed motors from a few cars, but the V8 is a bit intimidating PLUS Id want to keep the transmission in the car (not sure if this is recommended or not?).

Do you need new head bolts etc. or is it advised? (only reason I ask is that ARP or Manly bolts are not cheap so is it a false economy to NOT replace?)

Any guidance or opinion of effort between the two is appreciated. Is pulling the motor that much more effort?

I have the engine crane and suitable engine stand etc BTW.

Thanks for any help/estimates of time....after all it looks like I`ll have a bit spare (especially as all the car shows are cancelled here and we are coming into our winter time).

Cheers

Andrew
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Re: Heads off or engine removal

Post by colin7673 »

If my opinion is worth anything, because there are better people than me here, but if your at two minds to pull the engine out and do everything, then that would be the better option.. if you take the heads off while in situ then after, your be looking at the engine bay, thinking you should have had the engine out and done this and that.
Also while the engine is out, and you can bench it, everything is easier to access, if you snap a bolt is easy access, if you wish to re-route the HT leads then that would be easier.

If you've had a few motors out of other cars, the Jensen engine is just an engine but heavier everything else is the same. Take the rad out and take of the other bits and pieces off then your away.

Once the engine is out, do what you want to do, replace the engine and your have the job that you want and will be pleased that you did what you did.

Just my opinion, others might say different.
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Re: Heads off or engine removal

Post by grottenolm »

I‘d go for the „pull engine“ scenario. If you are going to install another cam you need to take out the radiator either way. Pulling the balancer was quite a challenge, don‘t know how I could have done it with engine in. Also when pulling the engine I Imagine you can leave the aircon in one piece.
The engine pulling is really not that big of a deal.
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Re: Heads off or engine removal

Post by slotcarone »

Definitely pull the engine if you are doing the cam. Just the timing chain can be done in the car. You can reuse the head bolts on these engines. :)
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Re: Heads off or engine removal

Post by Grant »

I'd also pull the engine Andrew.. and while it's out change all those core plugs.. you cannot do them with the engine in.. it is so less back breaking working on these engines when they are out.. that's what I think anyway :wink:
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Re: Heads off or engine removal

Post by AndrewP »

Thanks gents,

Think thats a resounding "pull the engine' vote then :)

I`ll mull it over and check the funds...no point doing it on too-tight-a-budget as Id like to tidy up the engine bay as well.

I`ll work out the logistics in the next week or so as whilst I have space, its a case of car tetris and the Jensen is V-heavy to push and manoeuvre even if it is without its engine!

Good point re:- core plug replacement as well. THe sort of thing I may have forgotten to do!
Anyone have the dimensions of the core plugs needed in the 383? Anythning international is taking a while to arrive so if its a case of just standard imperial sizes, Im sure I can get them locally.
I`ll measure them when the engine is out no-one has the sizes...

Cheers

Andrew
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Re: Heads off or engine removal

Post by PeterHume »

Hi Andrew
I have had a look in my tin of used core plugs and I think you will need:
Block 1 5/8" cup style x 6
Head 1 1/4" cup style x 2 per head
Head 1" cup style x 2 per head

Cam tunnel rear - 1 9/64" cup style but has shorter sides (about 1/4")

All for a 440 but I would expect the 383 to be the same?

Regards
Peter
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Re: Heads off or engine removal

Post by Kevin Birch »

If pulling the engine, ensure you have a decent engine hoist/ block & tackle, as it weighs 400Kg without the gearbox. A good engine stand will be needed too, as once it is on the deck it is immovable, and virtually impossible to work on safely. It would be a good time to tidy the engine bay up, or at least the bulkhead, as you will have so much room to access everything.
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Re: Heads off or engine removal

Post by AndrewP »

Thanks very much Peter.

Should have known youd have them stashed away/documented.

Funnily enough, the block ones are easy to find on eBay, the head ones though..more tricky for some reason!

Not a bit cost though so happy days!

Luckily I have a large engine crane (1 tonne) and a decent stand. As I also have found rifling through my stuff..I must have purchased one of the manifold lifting plates when in the US as well (remove the carb, fit the plate and lift away) so that should make things easier.

Thanks all for the advise and I`ll keep everyone updated if I get round to doing it (funds are the main issue at the moment with everything in limbo work-wise).

Cheers
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Grant
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Re: Heads off or engine removal

Post by Grant »

Not sure whether you have a 383 or a 440 and not sure if they are different anyway, but I always like the brass ones Andrew.. here you go >> https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/302472973366?c ... AsQAvD_BwE" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; or >> https://www.summitracing.com/parts/dcc- ... make/dodge" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Heads off or engine removal

Post by slotcarone »

Andrew when the engine is out make sure you replace the heater hoses going into the firewall. Almost impossible with the engine in the car! :)
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Re: Heads off or engine removal

Post by Dino Fritz »

Andrew,

Sorry for the delay in responding - I'm another one to vote for the engine removal, but another good reason is that the front wings are so delicate on these cars that doing the heads, etc with the motor in situ, you could end up with a few dents in the top of the front wings / fenders from leaning your elbows on them.

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Re: Heads off or engine removal

Post by AndrewP »

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for all the advise. Its certainly looking like the motor will come out this weekend.

We had a (socially distanced) run out at the weekend, a sort of final trip before the rebuild. A beautiful autumn day here...perfect!
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Wish me luck!
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Re: Heads off or engine removal

Post by AndrewP »

Hi everyone,

So..the task has begun.
A friend popped over to help, and all was going well and planning on just removing the engine, leaving the TC and gearbox in the car....but that seems to be harder than it needs be.

Does anyone have an idea of how to reach the 2 'hard to get' bell housing bolts? They seem nigh on impossible to get to and even when I've managed to get a ring spanner on them, the cut out/scalloping on the bellhousing means its very (very) limited to how much turn you can get on it. The drivers side bolt is virtually invisible so no idea what to do there!

If I admit defeat and remove the engine and box together, then just confirming that it is possible to pull the both out together? Any tips? Does the car need to be jacked up high on stands to get room underneath to angle the rear of the gearbox down?
What needs to be removed from the box to remove?
- Rear x member and rear mount removed
- Propshaft bolts removed and propshaft out
- speedo cable
- Shift and kick-down cable
- Oil lines to the cooler (out and return)
- Anything else??
If anyone has a any photos of the removal?

Cheers if anyone can help

Andrew
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Re: Heads off or engine removal

Post by Dino Fritz »

Hi Andrew,

I must admit that, in all of the time we removed and installed the engine (several times I might add, to trial fit headers, etc.), my brother and I always did the engine and trans together as one unit to get everything sitting in the right spot.

Hopefully, you've also removed the radiator as well - you'll need all of the room up front that you can get.

However, we had the luxury of a garage with a 4 meter high ceilings, with an "I" beam right up there with a block and tackle to really allow us to raise the engine and gearbox up at a 45 degree incline - PLUS we had a pit underneath the car to allow the trans to hang down around 2 feet. Once we had the engine and trans up high enough, we just rolled the engine and trans along the beam to the side of the car. Getting it in was (as they say in the classics) simply a reversal of the above (just drop the engine and trans in at a 45 degree incline, then someone gets in the pit to pivot the trans up into position in the trans tunnel.

If you don't have the luxury of the above setup, that I think you're right to remove the engine only.

To get the bolts of the trans, you'll probably need to move both of the engine and trans forward an inch or two for access - as you're raising the engine, rest the rear of the trans on the cross member, and get a trolley jack on the bellhousing, then try and push forward a little.

I may have a photo - let me see what I can find.

Good luck,
Dino
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