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V-8 Engine Tech

More 440 source woes

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by stuarta » Sun Sep 22, 2019 7:29 pm

Having yet again moved halfway around the world (this time to Canada), work has finally resumed on my mk2 Interceptor, 125-5420.

When I bought the car (from California), it was immediately shipped out to where I then lived (Dubai) and dismantled, without even being driven, for rebuild. I bought quite a number of engine rebuild parts (primarily from 440 source) and had them shipped with the car. Over the intervening years, several serious medical issues (wife, not myself), along with family crises, have prevented much in the way of progress but this summer, I finally managed to get back to it.

First up was the long awaited engine rebuild. I had dismantled, cleaned and painted the engine immediately after removal, following which, it sat covered up (to prevent sand entering) until I had to reattach the heads to lift it into the car for transport. First job was to clean again,following which the rebuild commenced with a new cam and timing gear, followed by the 440 source heads / valve gear / water pump housing, pulleys, etc.

First issue was the water pump housing - not restricted flow - I never even got that far - the housing a) had the holes for the water neck drilled too far apart for the new billet water neck's holes to align and b) was so much taller than the previous one that it was impossible to refit the AC compressor above it. I therefore removed it, cleaned up and repainted the original one and refitted that. The AC now fits again but it appears that there is precious little clearance between the back of the PS pump and the LHS valve cover.

Today, after much attention with wire brushes, sandpaper and paint, I finall got around to refitting the valve covers, only to discover that not only do the internal baffles foul the valvetrain but the bolt holes do not appear to align with the ones in the heads! I can get no more than 3 aligned at any one time, without enlarging the holes in the covers. I have not yet done that but wanted to ask if anyone else that has used the 440 source stealth heads has come across this issue and if so, how you resolved it?
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by Joerg » Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:10 am

Some parts of 440source come from doubtful suppliers and obviously their suppliers quality control is not state of the art.
I only buy from Hughes Engineering or Manchini Racing - good technical support, big knowledge and very good quality from all the well known parts manufacturers.
112-2371 was my first one, others followed :wink:
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by Twright55 » Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:05 pm

I had similar issues with the valve cover holes not aligning with the 440Source head. You could never get all the hold-down bolts in. My solution was to go to studs (better to use on aluminum heads anyway) and then the valve cover will slide on, but just barely.
Also similar issue with the exhaust manifold bolts. The last one would be very difficult to get started. Again, went to studs which solved the problem.

Obviously, the bolt holes are not tapped into quite the correct position. I seems as though the total distance between the first and last holes are about a 1/16th inch off (too far apart) making everything a very tight fit. It's workable though (in my case.) Try using studs instead of bolts. That's really better for aluminum anyway. There's much less chance of stripping out the soft aluminum threads.
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by stuarta » Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:27 am

Thanks for the replies - first thing I tried was studs - with one on each end, I could just about get the covers halfway without forcing too hard - they would probably have gone if I tapped with a rubber mallet but getting them off would then be an issue.

I checked the old heads today and lo and behold, the studs still attached to it are bent - I wonder if the issue is the holes in the covers and not the heads?

I am thinking that enlarging the holes in the covers slightly would probably allow me to get them on without putting too much strain on anything. that, along with studs on the ends will hopefully do the job.

I also have new studs for the exhaust manifolds - at the moment, only the end ones are in to hold them in place - will try fitting the rest and report back.
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by Steve Payne » Tue Sep 24, 2019 4:48 pm

Some of the stuff 440 source are selling is available for a lot less money on some of the Chinese selling sites like Ali Express.

What ever you do don't be tempted with the 440 source thermostats, I was working on a car with terrible over heating issues. I eliminated the thermostat because the owner had not long fitted one sourced from 440 source, I eventually removed it to find it jammed partially open and it was less than 6 weeks old and had covered only a few hundred miles.

I use Summit racing when parts are available from them, there is never any quibble with failures and its replacement is usually shipped on Express delivery for no charge.

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by stuarta » Tue Sep 24, 2019 5:39 pm

Thanks Steve - I did replace the thermostat but can't remember where I got it from - various parts came from Summit / Jegs / 440 Source / Appleyards / Rejen / K&D (and yourself!). Will have to check the invoices.
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by johnw » Thu Sep 26, 2019 8:10 pm

Steve Payne wrote:Some of the stuff 440 source are selling is available for a lot less money on some of the Chinese selling sites like Ali Express.
Steve

What sort of things Steve from Ali Express do you trust? I thought all 440 Source stuff was US made? Are some of their products from China?

I notice that Ali Express has hydraulic roller lifters for $110 a set which we discussed in another thread. Summit has a Lunati set for $400 which might be reasonable insurance or the same product for all I know.
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by Steve Payne » Thu Sep 26, 2019 8:32 pm

johnw wrote:What sort of things Steve from Ali Express do you trust? I thought all 440 Source stuff was US made? Are some of their products from China?



Not a lot, from what I have seen recently they are buying stuff from China like everybody else.

The Last MSD Blaster 2 Ignition coil I bought had ''Made in China'' on the label where as up to that point they had ''Made in the USA''.

Personally I would not trust anything other than maybe cast items like thermostat housings or maybe a kickdown cable, having bought some expensive roller followers that were faulty my guess is some of these are made in China and just repackaged once they arrive in the US.

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by FFPL » Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:40 pm

they do have a 'made in usa' section on their website. Their roller rockers are definitely not.
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by Steve Payne » Fri Sep 27, 2019 6:34 am

The problem made in XXX is often not actually correct, some things are just assembled in the country of there supposed manufacture.

The problem is some of this Chinese stuff is so cheap they can afford to have failures under warranty and just replace it and they are still in profit, even if they have a tight quality control and reject half they are still not loosing money.

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by Toby » Fri Sep 27, 2019 3:58 pm

During the sourcing of a Rotating assembly from Summit Racing i spoke with a Eagle themselves over the back order of Eagle "H" beam rods, i was informed that they import the rough castings from China and finish them off in the USA and at that time China were in no hurry to supply components to Eagles intense frustration
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by FFPL » Fri Sep 27, 2019 4:12 pm

Toby wrote:During the sourcing of a Rotating assembly from Summit Racing i spoke with a Eagle themselves over the back order of Eagle "H" beam rods, i was informed that they import the rough castings from China and finish them off in the USA and at that time China were in no hurry to supply components to Eagles intense frustration

callies or oliver. Probably others. I wouldn't do eagle. My last 2 engine builds I dealt directly with the manufacturers (in the usa) after unsatisfactory results from 440 source and then skat (also chinese forgings but machined in the USA).
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