440 engine and gearbox split apart with a siezed engine

[interceptor1021]

Hi guys, It turns out my 76 interceptor 440 engine is seized and has been for years so a full workout is required, I am working at home in my garage and don't have the room to remove the engine and box together as its too long so looking in the manual the procedure for splitting the engine and box states removing four bolts which hold the torque converter to the flywheel and access is through the bell housing inspection plate which is great for one bolt but cant turn the engine to gain access to the other three. It also states never pull the engine out with the torque converter attached which is what I was going to do. My question is why not ?

[Per]

If yoy pull them apart with the converter still bolted to the drive plate you will be very good/lucky not to put any weight on the drive plate. If you do put any weight on it the plate can distort and effectively be scrap. Check with e.g. Rejen if the have a good plate before you pull them anyway. Not that it matters, it is your only choice anyway. If you are really brutal you can damage the converter also.

[hemi]

You can removed the sump and release some torque from the crankshaft, by loosening the main bearing caps in addition to pouring some penetrating oil into each cylinder through the spark plug holes. You may need to belt the crank with a soft faced mallet depending how long its been seized. Loosen the accessory drive too so the belts are free - every little bit helps. As Per stated, if all else fails and the converter stays on the flex plate, and is damaged, then unfortunately so be it. Good luck - a difficult job in a single garage... been there, done that a time or two.

Matt

[thomaslk]

Hmm - not an easy situation. What you might also consider is to disassemble the engine in situ and start/try to unseize it. Means you pull the heads (which will also reduce the weight far by more than 100 pounds incl intake etc and has to be done anyway).
Than you can see how desperately corroded the bores are and start to unseize the pistons with WD40/penetrating oil/diesel/ATF-Aceton mix or whatsoever). As others suggested you may also pull the pan and start to loosen the main and rod caps additionally. This will also allow you to get an impression if the main bearings contribute to the seizure - which would be really bad. Usually "just" the pistons/rings are the culprits.
If the engine is not badly seized you may get it free (enough) to rotate the crank than. None of this work is useless - and you may be lucky.

All the best
Thomas

[Eddie]

I did take my engine out with the torque converter still attached.

Obviously not the correct and easiest way to go about things, but I have been lucky and everything has gone back together with no problems or damage.

I did take my time easing the engine forward and was carful not to get carried away and start yanking at it.

[Grant]

Interceptor 1021.. I think you should slow down a bit and take your time, take the plugs put, fill the bores with trans fluid, get a long torque bar and a socket to fit the bottom pulley crank bolt, everyday just try to move it a little, within a week it will probably move the whole 360 deg, then fire it up and see, I think you may be surprised, it is probably just rings stuck, a good friend of mine had just done exactly this with a Mopar that hasn't been turned over since 1976 and was also seized, it now runs beautifully with not even a one bit of smoke, try it and see before you strip everything .. well that is what I would do anyway

[RockyUSA]

Agree with Grant. What’s the harm in taking it slow?

Pull your plugs tonight and get some lubricant in there. You can borrow your wife's turkey baster to get the lubricant in there.

Let it soak for a couple days while you’re getting prepped for the rest of the job. I would certainly want to give it a chance to break loose before I pulled the engine.

Rocky

[interceptor1021]

Gentlemen thankyou for your input. As this is a low mileage car I wasn't planning on a rebuild but couldn't turn the engine over so I have slowly pulled parts off the motor while leaving the bores soaking hoping that it might be the valves, lifters, fuel pump etc but even down to the bare block its still seized. I think dropping the pan could be next, undo the pistons and try and push them up and out. This is turning into a full rebuild which I had not planned. Thanks again for the input. M

[interceptor1021]

I opted for the slow complete removal, it was tight as my engine hoist didn't reach so had to pull it forward on the last pin of my hoist but at only 250kg it wasn't going up until I pulled it forward by 2 foot. On the garage floor now and feel a lot safer.

[johnw]

Looks like good progress there. The bores don't look too bad. Is there traces of standing water in the bottom of any of the pistons? I would fill all the bores to the top with Diesel, ATF or whatever, after cleaning them out now the heads are off.

I was working on a 440 with a friend that had been standing 20 years, engine would not turn on the starter or via the crank pulley. We filled the cylinders completely with Diesel, with the heads and gaskets still on, and left it for 2 or 3 weeks.

Perhaps some cleaning round the top ring from above with a piece of pegwood in each bore, and then putting more releasing agent in for a few days before a final push on the breaker bar. You don't want any muck scratching the bores.

We then took the heads off ours until the motor looked like yours. We then unbolted the 5 or so 5/8th" headed bolts holding the crank pulley to the damper, just to get more clearance. Much to our surprise, a very long breaker bar and a socket freed off the previously stuck engine with relatively little effort.

So you might not have to unbolt the mains/rods at all.

[interceptor1021]

Looks like good progress there. The bores don't look too bad. Is there traces of standing water in the bottom of any of the pistons? I would fill all the bores to the top with Diesel, ATF or whatever, after cleaning them out now the heads are off.

I was working on a 440 with a friend that had been standing 20 years, engine would not turn on the starter or via the crank pulley. We filled the cylinders completely with Diesel, with the heads and gaskets still on, and left it for 2 or 3 weeks.

Perhaps some cleaning round the top ring from above with a piece of pegwood in each bore, and then putting more releasing agent in for a few days before a final push on the breaker bar. You don't want any muck scratching the bores.

We then took the heads off ours until the motor looked like yours. We then unbolted the 5 or so 5/8th" headed bolts holding the crank pulley to the damper, just to get more clearance. Much to our surprise, a very long breaker bar and a socket freed off the previously stuck engine with relatively little effort.

So you might not have to unbolt the mains/rods at all.

Think I might do that as the sump was full of sludge and water but no metal parts, I have removed and put back just to inspect some of the small and big end bearing and they look great but now the engine is on the floor upside down I have a better view of the pistons, bores and con rods which are coated in rust so think I might leave it soaking upside down first then roll her over for a top end soak again.
At least my findings are still inline with the low mileage as so far I have found no wear and hopefully at worst I need new rings if they break.
Some years back I rebuilt a Ferrari Dino engine which was seized after standing for years and that turned out to be the piston oil rings, the springs had rusting so badly they had expanded.

[slotcarone]

Keep in mind this engine is way more robust than that Dino engine!!

[johnw]

Would be interesting to know how you got the pistons out of the Dino engine. Slightly off topic though!

[interceptor1021]

Would be interesting to know how you got the pistons out of the Dino engine. Slightly off topic though!

I had to replace all 6 pistons as two had holes in them from the valves hitting when the timing slipped and the balance I damaged trying to get them out without damaging the bores. Turned out to be a £4.5k rebuild. Wont be working on silly little Italian engines again

[Per]

Would be interesting to know how you got the pistons out of the Dino engine. Slightly off topic though!

I had to replace all 6 pistons as two had holes in them from the valves hitting when the timing slipped and the balance I damaged trying to get them out without damaging the bores. Turned out to be a £4.5k rebuild. Wont be working on silly little Italian engines again

Reminds me of the quote I received for a set of new valves for a DB6 in 1981. GBP 1000 + VAT. I decided to pass on that particular car. Of course if I had bought it and just stored it I would have made a packet but the alternative use actually turned out better. (And so would investing in a portfolio of shares have done.)