The disappeared

[David Davies]

I have always been intrigued by the many Jensens I have seen over years which are then never seen or heard of again. How can these cars just disappear?! For example, over the last 40 years, I have seen many CV8s close to where I have lived or at JOC Internationals which have then never been seen again.

When I lived in Putney between 1981 and 1987, no fewer than 5 CV8s lived less than a mile away, including 54 BUU (104/2090) in its original Botticelli Blue. It was a common sight parked in a road opposite Putney Station and was also seen attending Knebworth around 1983/4. It was in nice condition but according to The Jensen Genome not heard of since 1984 (probably my notification). A year or two later it was advertised for the going rate of £3,000, the price of my one year old Mini Metro at the time. 8720 EH (104/2250) in its original Princess Grey with Blue Grey interior used to live just a few doors away, owned I believe by Martin Jensen at the time. Again, unheard of since 1986. One evening half a mile away I saw 828 MEA parked, from memory then in Green. A little tired but mouth-wateringly original apart from the green colour - thankfully this one does exist but is in New Zealand and off the road so no chance of seeing it here again.

A few years later around 1989 when I was looking to buy a CV8, I went to see TMA 200D in Deep Carriage Green with a Bentley Grey interior (pictured on the cover of one of the JOC mags at the time). Again, last heard of according to the Genome in 1991. Where's it been for 30 years??

I also found the same when I attended JOC Internationals over the last nearly 40 years. There was of course a core of cars that were usually there but many Sunday-only cars would never be seen again. For example, 928 RUO (104/2065) in Sun Bronze looked very nice at the 1984 Maidenhead event but I never saw it again. Thankfully that one does still exist - in 2012 it was off the road in the UK. I sometimes wonder how well the JOC International format of a conference centre car park suits the one-day people who are looking for a nice grassy, scenic place to have a picnic and a non-competitive event. The 40th CV8 Anniversary event at Ragley Hall stands out as particularly enjoyable due to a delightful location and lack of competition. The 50th Anniversary was also very good at Waddesden Manor. Some other clubs such as the Alvis Owners' Club manage to satisfy dinner dance people staying for three days in a large hotel, with a grassy, scenic picnic location fairly nearby for the wider Sunday gathering, so it shows that it is possible.

Finally, a car I used to own which I have never heard of since though I think John Staddon has a few brief details. My first CV8 was 104/2229, originally registered as FPC 640B to a Mr A G Robertson. The car turned up in the Bournemouth Echo in the later 1980s, advertised by Mr Robertson, having been laid up for at least a couple of decades. It didn't sell and was later traded in through a Vauxhall dealer in Wimborne where he then lived. It was passed on in the trade to a well-known dealer in Oxfordshire. A Mr Brennan bought it around 1988 in its totally original state (Princess Grey with Botticelli Blue roof) - see VHS still below - and had it spruced up, sadly losing the two-tone colour-scheme which I love on any CV8 or 541. He sold it to me the following year having been re-registered as EGF 188B - see photo.

Hopefully, these cars will one day re-emerge, and their owners may one day be attracted to attending a JOC International.

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[Martin R]

David, it's not just a case of attending a JOC International, I'm sure that if the owners actually joined the JOC, we would also be aware.
My guess is that some owners never even contemplate joining ANY car club, simply buying and enjoying (or not) their purchase.
In the same way that Steve runs the MK1 survivors web site, with many cars reappearing, having dropped off the radar for many years, the same must surely be said of all Jensen models.

The question is, how do we possibly reach out to those owners?

[David Davies]

A very large proportion of the 1350 members don't attend the International, perhaps 90 per cent. I think it's worth thinking whether it's something to do with the format. I don't know but I think it pays to be open minded about it.

[VFK44]

Although I thoroughly enjoy the format of the International, I wish we were able to decide in advance what was happening and when. (Obviously this year it has been difficult making a firm plan, so it's an exception). I can't invite casual Jensen owners to just turn up at a certain time, because there may have been a change of plan by word of mouth. I remember one year a new owner turned up to find virtually everybody had cleared off on a road trip, and there was no central info point he could go to. Luckily I've seen him at events since...
Maybe we could try to decide if the event is just for insiders, or if we want to attract new blood.
May I just add my huge appreciation of all the work put in, and I make this point in a purely positive way.

[DaveT]

Hello David, just a minor comment regarding Alvis international weekends, they typically cost at least twice the amount that I expect to spend on a Jensen international weekend. It is not so much the hotel, but the charges made for every individual activity during the weekend ( technical lectures, road trip, shopping excursion, dinner dance, concours entry, driving test entry, Sunday attendance at local stately home or similar etc…)

Dave

[David Davies]

Hi Dave, I’m not sure it’s about cost for a very well-funded JOC and its affluent membership. Some Alvis activities such as driving tests are not so relevant to the JOC anyway.

My point about the disappeared cars and owners is much broader than the International, although it is the flagship event and therefore the venue and format is important, it’s also about things that may put people off the club more widely and I can think of a few. I have much admiration for all officials and organisers. I just highlight what is a plain fact about the loss of cars and potential members.

[kenny38]

We/you have to realise that like just about all clubs around the world have this problem certainly with members. I believe the majority of financial members are not anti social but are not really interested in mixing with other members on a regular basis.( Imagine if Grant walked up behind some one and said "BOO"!) Most are content to be a member and get the magazine. These people do not demand very much but should be recognised as playing a large part of our club's success.
Kenny38

[David Davies]

There may well be some truth in what you say, Kenny38, that similar challenges face all clubs but in my experience the response to those challenges varies quite a lot. Taking the annual club day, the venue and aura of an Alvis, Lagonda,VSCC or RREC day, for example, is quite different to the JOC. None use a conference centre car park for the event and they tend to have a warmth and conviviality, based around in some cases quite lavish picnics.

As attending anything is out of the question for me personally for the foreseeable future due to care commitments, I simply offer a few further thoughts on things that cause damage or alternatively could help the club:

- some stuff on this Forum from a quite small contingent is a major turn off for many in the wider membership or prospective members;
- huddles of members talking to each other at events rather than engaging with first-time members or the public. I have noticed that many times;
- weak focus on the earlier Heritage of the Jensen marque, demonstrated for example by the small percentage of members who have bought All the Models 14 years after it was published;
- over focus on concours with no Preservation Class. Well-maintained cars in original condition should be equally prized and this should be publicised;
- not engaging with the wider membership. The importance of personal contact by phone or in person cannot be over-emphasised. I recall Shaun contacting me out of the blue about the 2018 NEC in a very warm and friendly way, it made me feel a whole lot better about the club. The 70 per cent who did not respond to the Survey need to be contacted by phone by the chairman/vice chairman or general secretary. We might learn a lot.

[John Staddon]

I'm jumping back to the original topic of this thread, 'the disappeared'.

104/2090, 54 BUU, was bought by a well known, then, member of the JOC in about 1985, that member had other C-V8s and this one was driven by his wife, his wife died and he decided to concentrate on the restoration of a Mk111 C-V8 and offered 2090 to a car restorer in exchange for restoration work on the Mk111, the restorer disappeared with both cars and after taking legal proceedings the JOC member was able to find the restorer and retrieve the Mk111 but not 2090. Quite what happened to 2090 i don''t know but the JOC member suspects it may have been burnt out in a workshop fire. I had this story from someone who knows the owner and not first hand so it's a bit vague but I don't have any more details.

The last known owner of 2229 was in the JOC until 2002, car and owner haven't been heard of since.

The last known owner of 2250 was a JOC member until the year 2000 but both car and owner haven't been heard of since.

112/2437, JMA 200D was also lost to a fire, the chassis was used to restore another car.

John

[Series3Jensen]

Hi David

Your comments particularly on CV 8's and 541's is one of the reasons behind my investigation into the Interceptors (all variants)
I had identified a number of cars from early adverts and articles dating back 40 years
I was also interested in finding out how many Interceptors have survived - made more difficult as many were exported

I believe that there are close to 6,770 cars in total - some minor discrepancies on numbers and in addition there are the later cars that were produced
In all of these cars, i have only identified with some certainty that 66 cars no longer survive
In truth this number is likely to be in the 1,000's

I have however in my quest managed to identify some information on a total of 2,135 cars and of these, i have information on 1,562 where the information is since 2010 and so would anticipate that most of these still survive

The Interceptors in particularly have been the subject to changing Registration Numbers that has made idenified specific chassis number a little more difficult
Both the Adverts and Articles and Registration Numbers remain the subject of two seperate threads on the Forum and responses from members continues to be very helpful
I have identified 562 Registration numbers that i had not been able to allocate to specific chassis numbers but various sources of investigation including members, has allowed me to identify 149 of these - still over 400 to go

The Interceptor Investigation has been involved, but i had during the course of my review of old adverts and articles, identified a number of CV 8 and 541 cars
I would like to be able to pass on this information to current owners of these cars before it is lost
Unfortunately i have not yet created a spreadsheet of all of these cars - although the total numbers are significantly smaller than the Interceptors

KInd regards

JIm Smith
Mem No 1639
136/8791 RJF 17 owned since September 1978

[David Davies]

Another intriguing CV8 I looked at Downton Service Station near Lymington in the mid '80s was a Mk III registered FBL 990D, from memory then in sand metallic with beige leather. It was on sale for £4,000 which was quite high at the time. It went to South Africa according to the dealer. I see on DVLA it was recorded as Grey and last taxed in the UK in 1985/6, first registered in June 1966. I wonder what happened to it. It's hard to pin it down in the Genome from these details.

[John Staddon]

Hi Mike

You have a good memory. FLB 990D is 112/2384 and it belonged to a Mr Amos who lived in Lymington, Mr Amos advertised the car for sale in the JOC magazine in March 1984. In November of 1984 the car was bought by a friend of Mike Lotwis in the USA, that's a name you may know as you have been with the club a long time, and
Mike told me in 2013 that his friend still had the car and the friend, and the car, lived in New York (though he lived in London when he bought it). I have no record of the car ever being in South Africa, but the owner does have a Dutch name so there is a possible connection. The register says the car was Oyster Grey when it was built so the fact that it was another colour when you saw it is something I can add to the records.

John

[MikeWilliams]

I do understand your point David about the International Weekend and you are right that some members will never find much interest in a car par at a conference centre. I share your views. On the other hand, my wife still refers to the "Jensen Interceptor Club" because those cars dominate, so I ask what might encourage more Healey owners to take part? I'm guessing that there are as many Healeys still around as there are Interceptors, though I have no evidence for that.

Mike

[MikeWilliams]

The moment I clicked the button I thought "Richard Calver's site will tell me that". Sure enough, Interceptors outnumber Healeys by about 2:1, but that's not reflected in the number of cars we see. So what would entice Healey owners out?

Mike

[David Davies]

I have always been a bit confused by what Oyster Grey is. Does it have a slight golden tinge to it, like The Baron’s car? Maybe what I saw at Downton was Oyster Grey if so. GAT 166D currently on the market is claimed to be in its original Oyster Grey although I had assumed the garage in Bournemouth resprayed it metallic gold in 1969 when it passed through there with a ‘nominal mileage’ according to the original Echo ad.

Another CV8 MkIII I saw around 1984 on the grass at Cropredy, and never knowingly seen or heard of since, was registered T MAN 369 I believe as though it had been in the Isle of Man. Regal Red with Black leather.