Electric v Petrol/Diesel inc. Classic - Great Video

[Pymmie]

If you have the time to sit and listen to this it's well worth it.

Some very interesting facts & figures from Harrys Garage

Looks like i'll be keeping my Interceptor for many years to come.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CUA2im ... NcaPHSZKMk

Regards

John P

[colin7673]

Very interesting indeed.. Just think though how much further electric cars would have been told if they had stuck with them back in the very early 1900s.

[Chris_R]

I think he rambled on a bit and confused a couple of statistics and not exactly comparing like with like in some cases. However I think he made a few excellent points. Firstly that the carbon emissions from the manufacture of historic cars is long spent whereas the manufacture of new electric cars is more costly than their equivalent ICE versions (and that does not take into account the ethics of where the raw materials are mined). Secondly the amount of CO2 that is likely to be emitted by historic cars over an entire decade is dwarfed into insignificance when compared to that emitted by the manufacture and use of an electric car. And finally, which I believe will ensure the long term ability to use the cars will be some kind of petrol replacement fuel that is portable like petrol and combustible like petrol. Currently that would be ethanol but there may be some alternative synthetically produced fuel in the future. Technically an internal combustion engine would run on pure ethanol and for the miniscule amount that would be needed to fuel the historic vehicle fleet using biomass to produce that would be sustainable and would be carbon neutral.

[ChrisP]

loved it brilliant !

[colin7673]

And finally, which I believe will ensure the long term ability to use the cars will be some kind of petrol replacement fuel that is portable like petrol and combustible like petrol. Currently that would be ethanol but there may be some alternative synthetically produced fuel in the future.

But they have the technology today already to run cars on water or hydrogen Paul Lewis ran his Interceptor with a conversion kit..

It's just that this technology has been surprised in favour of oil and now electric.

It has been said that hydrogen is too expensive to produce and is hard to contain, but if the money was invested to contain the fuel, the cost of producing hydrogen would surely comedown so we could use our cars a normal no plugins, no mountains of used batteries. No engines having to be mealted down.
Or am I thinking to simply ?

[Chris_R]

You're absolutely correct Colin. Cars can run on hydrogen and have done. I'm with you on that, I think hydrogen would be more sensible. A quick search on the internet though says there are a number of issues at the moment to do with cost, efficiency and storage difficulties. I would think, like you do, that none of those difficulties are insurmountable with the right investment. This dash to electric is more of a European dash at the moment I think. For whatever reason the powers that be have decided electric is the way to go. I did also read somewhere that going battery powered in this way that we will exhaust the world supply of raw materials for batteries in less than 50 years.
I did read that Japan are going more down the hydrogen route but at the moment I think their hydrogen is being generated from Australian Brown coal and then being shipped in huge tankers. There is a hydrogen powered Toyota Police car running round our area that I've seen from time to time.

[colin7673]

The problem is with the electric route is the insatiable desire for electricity, this country alone does not have the capacity, at the moment to fulfil requirements to feed this desire unless the country can build more nuclear power stations at an incredible rate, which they are not doing.. Nuclear power is the only way forward for the human race to feed this appetite for electric, batteries no matter how good they are will need to be charged and recharged and they only last for so long, if the power isn't there to feed this appetite there will be carnage.
Another Chernobyl disaster, in the modren age would have to be an acceptable loss to the human race.

[DPP]

I think he is right about the desire for all classics when drivers get bored of a car that does everything for them.

I also want to know how people in terraced houses or without a drive will charge their cars.

[Chris_R]

Not enough electricity generation is one problem, one that I suppose could be overcome (more wind farms? except when the wind is not blowing) but a more practical everyday problem is places like this. Lots of houses, like many people they want and have cars but the only place to park them is on street with no guarantee of being able to park outside your own house. But recently because of the narrowness of the road and the fact there is a junior school at the other end the council have removed parking from one side so allowing parents and children full access over the pavements so the number of cars able to park here is halved and if you live on the left you can't park on that side. So how and where will you charge your car? You're not allowed to have a forward facing charging point within 2m of the pavement so no one on this street will be able to charge an electric car unless dozens of charging posts are installed along the kerb and even then only those who can park on one side will be able to plug in. And when charged up must you go out and move it away so someone else can plug in? I can see that working well. Not.
I've not seen any answers to this yet.

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[Richie]

I started to watch the vid earlier but the kids had other ideas.
I'm therefore looking forward to watching it tomorrow, so all of what follows might be totally irrelevant... But, in the meantime, from a driving point of view, I can vouch that there's nothing to fear from EVs.

As a means of getting down the road, it makes combustion engined vehicles feel like the fuel they're powered by...fossils. I love the Jensen's V8 but for my daily car, there's no way I'd want to go back to combustion. It's only the exotic engines we'll miss... not the 1.8 diesel in a mondeo for example. And even the most exotic V12 won't get close to the instant but smooth responses of an EV. It makes for driving that's as refined and relaxed or as fun as you choose.

Right now, I think the tipping point price wise is a hefty £30,000. Its only when you get around there does an EV make sense and can be the better buy, not just in terms of cost but fun. My brother in law now regrets his VW Golf R purchase... but I reckon you'd be mad to say buy the electric mini instead of the cooper.
But prices will quickly fall and convenience will quickly rise.

Impressive though many of them already are, I think that we are at the infancy of EVs. In a few years, just as we do now about 1980s mobile phones, we'll laugh at the current (no pun intended) situation of carrying cables around and plugging them in overnight to charge.

And, with perhaps deliberately little fanfare, I see Toyota have just launched a regular family car, hydrogen powered available to buy or lease from your local dealer. So that's a technology that might rapidly develop too.

Here's a review of it... not a bad start...

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/to ... ai/verdict

Ps - on street charging is, to an albeit limited extent, being addressed (again, no pun intended) with chargers being fitted into lampposts.

[Chris_R]

Ps - on street charging is, to an albeit limited extent, being addressed (again, no pun intended) with chargers being fitted into lampposts.

There are some in lamp posts on some other streets near me.
In this road that I pictured though there's just 2 lamp posts on the left side and just 1 available on the right. There's no parking on the left side anymore and in any case the lamp posts on that side are not by the kerb, they are right back against the front wall of the property so to use them (if parking was allowed again) charging cables would have to trail across the pavement to reach the car.
So, one location for charging points for the whole street. Maybe 2 actual outlets if you can put one on each side of the lamp post on that side of the street. That should work well then.
Too bad though if you live on the wrong side of the street.

[Richie]

Indeed Chris. Its a help but not a solution.
But this kind of thing will continue to change. Charging points are popping up everywhere from restaurants and hotels to car parks to offices etc. Charging points are increasing and charge times will decrease.

I can see a time in the not too distant future when it's combustion engined cars, not EVs, that have range anxiety.

There are already far fewer petrol stations than there used to be. The centre of Newport is 4 miles from my home. Only one of the previous five petrol stations in that journey remain. Will supermarkets continue to offer loss leading fuel to tempt us in to the shop?

With a big V8 to feed I certainly hope so!

[colin7673]

In the past when Electric Cars was just a dream,, 1970s the car makers were just "playing" at the idea then,, I remember an episode of Tomorrow's World picking up on this and saying that their would be charging points in the road or parking places, you driving into a parking spot and the car charges, a little like Mobil Phones do at the moment with wireless charging..

At the moment the downside of electric cars is the range and charging times, plus the price.

Would you have an electric car Richie if it wasn't a company car ??

[Richie]

Absolutely I would Colin - 100%. And that's not because I'm on some kind of evangelical crusade - it's totally because I'm a car fan.

As I said earlier, I would not want to revert to petrol at all. There is no comparison in the superiority of driving that electricity brings. Its smoother, more refined, more responsive and, importantly from an enthusiasts point of view, more fun. I cannot think of a single aspect of desirable driving characteristics that are better provided by combustion.

The problem is one of cost - I reckon its only north of thirty grand that they start to make sense - and I wish I had such a budget! But at that price point EVs start to become more than just viable, they can become desirable.

Below that price however... hmmm. I referenced the mini earlier as an example - there are others. Take the MG ZS. The electric version starts at £25,500. Spec differences may make this an unfair comparison but the petrol range starts at £12,200. You could but two petrol ones for one electric - and have £100 change! I would question the sanity of anyone who opted for electric there. The Vauxhall Corsa is another - £28,000 for the electric with the ICE range starting at £15,000 - not quite half the price but near enough.

But when that price difference narrows, electric wins. Here's the verdict from Autocar when they "put the electric saloon up against the class-leading BMW 3 Series":

"This result is close, but the Model 3 proves that now is the time you can buy an EV instead of an ICE car. It takes victory thanks to its ultra-low running costs, while comfort, tech and practicality are on par with the BMW’s, yet performance is better"

Looking at the Top Gear comparison with a car destined to be a future classic, the BMW M3, the Tesla won three of the four comparison sectors, the BMW taking its sole win not on the road but on the track due to its better handling but noted that the "electric has already exceeded it (combustion) for peak performance"

So even if cost was neutral, for car fans such as us, that better performance should clinch the deal in the EVs favour...

[Richie]

I was able to watch the video earlier.
Good viewing and I'm quite reassured really that it largely chimes with my previous posts.

There must be others on this forum with ev experience to contribute here...?