Electric v Petrol/Diesel inc. Classic - Great Video

[ajc9415]

I agree with you Richie, good electric cars like the Tesla are a joy to drive. Running and maintenance costs are far lower so why would you still drive a petrol / diesel car as your daily driver. I do think this will be an interim measure until a better technology is developed to a useable level such as hydrogen. I saw a short film call something like Who Killed the Electric Car (I think) which was about General Motors in the late 70’s or early 80’s. They developed a useable electric car but soon realised that maintenance costs (which is where they make their money) plummeted so they bought them all back a scrapped them!

[felixkk]

We had a bit of trouble with our 2009 Subaru Outback. Rather than buy a new or a newer model I was looking into buying an older Subaru from the 80s- so I wanted to know what experience our Subaru garage have with them, and if they have any for sale. According to them, apart from one customer, they do not have any cars in service older than 10 or 11 years. From what I understood it is even becoming difficult to buy parts for our model. You should think that cars nowadays should be able to last 15 or 20 years, no? Why is there not more pressure on automakers in that direction? That to me would make most environmental sense.

[Dion]

As Harry says in his video, much of the CO2 used for EVs is in the building of the cars. And then over again every three years or so.
Much better to buy a car and keep it a looooong time.

I thought I had my ideal bad weather / towing / winter sport car when I bought a 1993 Subaru Legacy 2.2 auto station ten years ago. From its first owner, low mileages, FSH, good condition. I wanted to keep it for a long time but I loaned it to a customer and he managed to wreck it on the motorway Could not find a similar model, sometimes I am still looking but they have become pretty rare being the series one. I do not car much for the series 2 or 3. Its replacement was a 3.0 six cylinder Outback from 2001. Same again, First owner low mileage, FSH etc. But I never had the fun and confidence in that. So when the auto gearbox began to make noises, and the sunroof started to leak I sold it. Hope to have the 3.0 V6 X-type estate (2004) a little longer. Have it owned now for four years and it is behaving pretty good still.

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[colin7673]

Had a quick read about the Toyota H2 Gas Hydrogen car and its looks good, but prices let's it down, had governments gone down this route and allowed conversion kits to be sold to petrol and diesel cars, lorries and buses I think more people would be running on hydrogen now then electric...

Trouble with the governments idea, about all cars being electric by 2035 is that even now, they are expensive and what would the resale value be and how good would they be on the secondhand market.

I'd love to go electric as I could charge for free having solar on the roof but honestly, just can't afford too

[RockyUSA]

Not to say Tesla’s aren’t cool.... but....

I wouldn’t hold my breath for a carbon-neutral, inexpensive hydrogen powered car anytime soon.

Production of hydrogen is very energy intensive, and releases a lot of CO2 into the atmosphere. Plus there are the problems with storage and distribution.

Maybe if world government gets behind it, and subsidizes it for 20 years, it might become a reality, but my reading regarding hydrogen production, that seems to be an unlikely dream.

Maybe once the fusion reactors come online, and we have unlimited electric power, we can then use hydrolysis to split water into hydrogen and oxygen. Oh wait - those fusion reactors are (and have been) 30 years in the future, too!

Rocky


There is a reason that cars run on gasoline, and (many?.... some?) German power plants run on dirty, ligonite coal.....

That’s because it’s the cheapest, most convenient solution.

I find it hard to believe, like the “Water Carburetor“, the big oil companies bought up all the patents to electric cars, and have them buried in their warehouses.

[Chris_R]

There are moves towards hydrogen. I heard today of a plan to create an entire town heated and run by hydrogen. Apparently all new gas boilers must also be hydrogen compatible so the hydrogen can be piped to houses using the existing gas pipe network. Once hydrogen can be produced on that sort of scale it will become more economic to use it for transport. There is also a town that will have its entire bus fleet powered by hydrogen.

[kees]

We had a bit of trouble with our 2009 Subaru Outback. Rather than buy a new or a newer model I was looking into buying an older Subaru from the 80s- so I wanted to know what experience our Subaru garage have with them, and if they have any for sale. According to them, apart from one customer, they do not have any cars in service older than 10 or 11 years. From what I understood it is even becoming difficult to buy parts for our model. You should think that cars nowadays should be able to last 15 or 20 years, no? Why is there not more pressure on automakers in that direction? That to me would make most environmental sense.

Don't worry about parts. You won't need them. I have had two Imprezas, 1993 (1800cc), 350.000km, and 2000 (2000cc), 280.000km unblown. The 2000 was brilliant as it had 150hp. It stuck to the road and got me out of trouble many a time in slippery conditions. In between the two I also had the Legacy 2000 (2000cc, 150hp), 200.000 but it was not my car and I was glad it was wrecked in a pile up in Belgium. Although comfortable and very stable on the road it was not really a drivers car to be chucked around the corner. All three were manual cars with hi/lo transmission. The only fault they have is when you are stuck in slow traffic, it is impossible to drive slowly smoothly. Things that broke?: the rubber gaiters of the drive shafts, and the rubbers of the front stabilising bar. The clutch however does wear fairly rapidly and needs to be replaced every 150.000-200.000km. Other than that just maintenance.
I sold the last Impreza with pain in my heart only 2 years ago. It is fairly low and getting out was getting a bit of a problem at my age. These days I drive a Honda CRV but it does not come near. Solid, reliable, comfortable yes, but front wheel drive unless the front wheels let go. Very uninspiring car. If I will come across a decent Forester I may trade in the Honda. Still a BIG Subaru fan.
Kees Oudesluijs

[felixkk]

Too much technology in the 2009 Subaru, which is why I regret selling the '04 Legacy, and would not want a Tesla or any other modern car. Great cars though, we've had Subarus for the past 25 years, and they've never ever had an issue- until now: various sensors needed replacing. The car was running fine but the engine light kept returning Maybe I'll ask Andi if he has a spare 383 to put in the Subaru Tons of snow up here in the mountains last weekend with very few cars on the road- that was fun.

[colin7673]

Found this while looking on YouTube ..

I guess this idea got brought and lost

https://youtu.be/vFfsEfnsA4I

Plus this

https://youtu.be/XlMFLPGUiQE

When you get through the adverts it's interesting

[Basil McKinley]

The move to export hydrogen generated from renewable energy (hydro, solar and wind) by hydrolysis of water is gathering momentum in Australia. Existing ammonia production technology will be used to combine the hydrogen with nitrogen from the atmosphere to form ammonia (NH3), which can be readily liquified and exported by bulk tanker. Once at its destination the ammonia can be converted back to hydrogen and nitrogen and the hydrogen used to power electric fuel cells or IC engines. Alternatively, ammonia produced by renewables can start to decarbonize existing ammonia production which is used in very large quantities as a fertilizer. Ammonia can also be used as a fuel in IC engines and large marine engines have been developed to run on ammonia. Back in the early 80's a guy in Canada converted a then new Chevy Impala to run on ammonia and there are some interesting YouTube videos about this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0hBAz6MxC4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6HzP84KhoY

Regards,
Basi
p.s. anhydrous ammonia is not to be confused with ammonium nitrate!

[RockyUSA]

There’s no easy answers.... You can find a lot more info on burning ammonia in ICE’s but there are problems with a good mixture at low speeds, which needs a “fuel enhancer”.... like gasoline or hydrogen...

Anyway - read the last paragraph (about “Part two...”).

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[Basil McKinley]

There’s no easy answers....

True. Ammonia will only be part of the story and primarily as a transport medium for hydrogen. I referenced those videos for interests sake and was not trying to imply that ammonia will be the primary means of fueling cars in the future,

Regards,
Basil

[Richie]

I'd love to go electric as I could charge for free having solar on the roof but honestly, just can't afford too

I guess the first thing to consider is whether or not a new car, however its fueled, is wanted. Then much depends on how much is spent on fuel. If it's say £50 a week, then free leccy would save £2,600 a year. Factor in negligible, if any servicing each year, and savings are probably around £3,000 a year.

If that's spent instead on an EV then the saving is of course zero... but neither has there been any cost - leasing at say £450pm instead of £200pm ... but it could put the driver behind the wheel of a potentially better, (usually) more convenient car... it certainly opens possibilities.

A lesser / greater spend on fuel swings the maths accordingly...

[Kevin Birch]

Very interesting, and a well balanced view. My thoughts are that electric cars are an interim measure and that manufacturers are jumping on the band wagon to get as much profit as possible. The fact that they are being sold as zero emissions is fraudulent, especially as we know they produce around 1.5 times the CO2 that ICE cars do in the manufacture. Two points that haven't been mentioned are that at the current battery technology, there is not enough raw material in the ground to be able to produce the batteries for all cars to be electric. I'm sure battery technology will get 2 better, but using a finite raw material is never going to be the answer. The second point is the 2 tax issues.Road tax, at the moment is free for electric cars, that won't last, as the revinue will drop to a point that they will have to pay tax, so running costs will not be free, as I'm sure the electric companies too will find a way to start charging for the electricity a vehicle uses. The current business aspect of 100% tax offset will not continue either, which will mean it will not advantageous for companies to buy the expensive cars as a tax break. So unless the actual cost of the cars comes down to the same level as ICE cars then nobody will be able to afford them.
We do need to ensure cars last longer and get away from the 3 year renew, and throw away mentality of modern society.
The governments of the world are not actually addressing the main issue of pollution, and that is over population. We need to stop the world population increasing, and really start decreasing it, this alone will naturally reduce pollution, but that is another can of worms. How they would work out how to do that, when they can't even decide on who can fish where, then there is no hope for any of us.

[Richie]

I think you're quite right there Kevin.

And far from addressing the elephant in the room of increasing populations, some countries, such as Japan, are offering tax invectives to actually increase theirs...

But to get back to EVs...I'm sure running costs will no doubt balance out in future due to road pricing schemes or whatever - purchase costs will fall, running costs will rise and pence per mile costs will be comparable to today. No government could forgo the revenue currently provided by fuel taxes.

But in the meantime, depending on personal circumstances, the expensive new EV might not be as expensive as it first seems - a higher purchase / leasing price could potentially be more than offset by the lower running costs.

Like many things in life... get it while you can...