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Tesla / Electric Vehicles

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by Richie » Wed Feb 05, 2020 9:33 am

...yeah, i realise i'm on the wrong forum for this question but does anyone on here use one as a daily?

To cut a long story short, I've changed employer and the package comes with a car. As a petrol head, i chose the gorgeous Alfa Giulia and have been eagerly awaiting its arrival.

However, its going to cost around £5,000 a year in benefit in kind (BIK) tax. This is comparable to any tax paid on the Alfa's BMW /Audi / Jag etc equivalent. And that's £5,000 a year more than any electric vehicle which attract no BIK tax at all. Nil.

So, if i am able to opt for say a Tesla (Model 3) instead, I'll be giving myself a £5,000 a year pay rise and to be frank, there's a lot I could do with that.

I have a driveway and garage with mains power so (I assume) home charging won't be a problem.

I'm not looking to open any discussions about the environmental benefits or otherwise of electric cars - the benefit I'm concerned with is a £5,000 a year saving - but I would be very grateful to hear of any real world experience you may be able to share etc.

Thanks in advance.
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by Chris_R » Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:17 am

As part of my IAM work I met someone with a Tesla Model S. It's his third. Before he got his first one he bought a Jaguar XF and even on the way home from collecting it found he was already ambivalent towards it, just another very nice car, and soon after changed it for his first Tesla and still feels excited about going out in the morning to drive the Tesla. There are little things he likes, the fact that you don't switch on the car. The fact a driver has opened the door, got in and sat down in the driver's seat instructs the car to power itself up. When you finish and get out of the car and walk away the car switches itself off and locks the door for you as it assumes (when no one else is in the car) that if the driver leaves the car that the driver has finished with the car. He finds himself now forgetting to lock his wife's normal car after he gets out. There are other things such as it will automatically accelerate to the speed limit, providing there is no slower cars in front, and automatically slow down when the traffic in front slows. I assume these features are also on the Model 3.
Driving with the Tesla is not a problem. He uses his all over the country and across Europe. When you set out for a journey you give the car your destination, like any satnav system and the car will work out for you the route and it will plot any recharging stations on your journey. The car will know (approximately) how much of your charge you will need and will predict where you need to stop to recharge. In real time it will keep you informed about which charging points are busy and which are available.
He likes the discipline that the car imposes on driving. He likes the fact that you cannot do marathon non-stop drives covering huge distances and that it takes time to recharge because that imposes a safety break which all the motoring organisations recommend. You plan your drive to take that into account and have lunch or something while the car recharges. In 40 minutes you can get about 80% charged. What you won't be able to do is drive 200 miles to collect some part for your Jensen and 10 minutes later drive 200 miles back home. What you won't be able to do is drive (for example) from Cardiff to Folkestone (220 miles), get straight onto the next Eurotunnel to Calais and then immediately drive another 4 or 5 hours across Europe. You will need to plan in a significant break time for recharging. In the case of Eurotunnel you would need to add an hour or so break before getting on the train to recharge at one of their superchargers before you leave the UK or find a Tesla supercharger close by the other end and stop there for an hour. It changes your mindset about how you set about long journeys.
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by ajc9415 » Wed Feb 05, 2020 1:01 pm

A friend of mine has one of the new Model 3’s and loves it. He uses it as his daily drive with no problems. He has previously had a Model S that he also thought was great. He says the 3 is actually better as the technology has moved on. It’s obviously smaller than the S but also about half the price. As Chris says you just have to plan a bit more with long journeys. I bet when the first petrol cars came along there were people saying that horses could go further but we planned for our petrol stops and it worked out okay.
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by Keith » Wed Feb 05, 2020 1:21 pm

The "throttle" / accelerator pedal, or whatever it's called does take a little getting used to, as the car decelerates quickly as you ease off the accelerator (just like applying the brakes). Big saving on brake pads and discs though, as they are hardly ever used.

I like the fart machine very much. It's programmable so that you can make any of your passengers fart, even in the back, left or right, just choose who you want to embarrass.
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by Grant » Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:37 pm

Keith wrote:The "throttle" / accelerator pedal, or whatever it's called does take a little getting used to, as the car decelerates quickly as you ease off the accelerator (just like applying the brakes). Big saving on brake pads and discs though, as they are hardly ever used.

I like the fart machine very much. It's programmable so that you can make any of your passengers fart, even in the back, left or right, just choose who you want to embarrass.

Do you have a Tesla then Keith? or was it from test driving one your experience?
I spoke not so long ago with a Jensen Fanatic that used to post on here and he has a Tesla now, I am not sure what one it is though, but, he could not speak any higher of it, he used to drive an FF years ago and loved it and obviously wasn't comparing it to that, but he absolutely adored it, said it was one of the quickest cars he had ever driven with no petrol bills, he loves it no end. I knew nothing about them apart from that they were electric and I had no idea that they were up there in performance with the Supercars.
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by Richie » Wed Feb 05, 2020 8:34 pm

Keith wrote:The "throttle" / accelerator pedal, or whatever it's called does take a little getting used to, as the car decelerates quickly as you ease off the accelerator (just like applying the brakes). Big saving on brake pads and discs though, as they are hardly ever used.

I like the fart machine very much. It's programmable so that you can make any of your passengers fart, even in the back, left or right, just choose who you want to embarrass.


My teenage stepdaughter raved about the whoopee cushion.
I think that's sold it to me :D

Thanks for the input all, really appreciated
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by Steve Payne » Thu Feb 06, 2020 7:48 am

Chris_R wrote:It changes your mindset about how you set about long journeys.


Yes it must, I was speaking to an owner of one and he was telling me how great it was and the range was not that bad. He also told me that he has relatives in Scotland and it just does not work for that. In his Audi he could easily get there in one hit with a quick comfort stop on route but with the Tesla he had to sit for nearly an hour and it would get there just so he used ''his proper car'' ( those were his words) for that journey as it was not worth risking it.

I am sure we have all done some crazy log distance journeys in our ICE cars with little more than a few comfort brakes and snacking on route but in a few years we will no longer be able to do this and our grandchildren will look at us in disbelief when we tell them. There is something on YouTube of a guy in the US picking up a Tesla and having to cover 1500 miles or so in 24 hours, he has it all worked out to get maximum range and charge times but I think he stops 10 times for 45 mins or so as this is the most efficient way of time to miles/charging time.

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by cannonball » Thu Feb 06, 2020 12:46 pm

Do you really want another area of your life mapped out for you ????????? not me
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by VFK44 » Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:33 pm

For £5000 a year I'd put up with it. If it suits your lifestyle, Richie, go for it!
I think the BIK is tapered in later years, though.
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by Chris_R » Thu Feb 06, 2020 4:21 pm

Steve Payne wrote:
Chris_R wrote:It changes your mindset about how you set about long journeys.


Yes it must, I was speaking to an owner of one and he was telling me how great it was and the range was not that bad. He also told me that he has relatives in Scotland and it just does not work for that. In his Audi he could easily get there in one hit with a quick comfort stop on route but with the Tesla he had to sit for nearly an hour and it would get there just so he used ''his proper car'' ( those were his words) for that journey as it was not worth risking it.

I am sure we have all done some crazy log distance journeys in our ICE cars with little more than a few comfort brakes and snacking on route but in a few years we will no longer be able to do this and our grandchildren will look at us in disbelief when we tell them. There is something on YouTube of a guy in the US picking up a Tesla and having to cover 1500 miles or so in 24 hours, he has it all worked out to get maximum range and charge times but I think he stops 10 times for 45 mins or so as this is the most efficient way of time to miles/charging time.

Steve

With my IAM hat on I would say the fact he can't get to Scotland in one hit is a good thing. It is recognised that long driving stints increases the risks. This was exactly the view of the person I met and who was looking to take his Advanced Driving Test. The length of time for a stop to recharge instilled a discipline to plan the journey properly and to take a proper break and (perhaps) have a meal or relaxing extended tea/coffee break while the car recharged. He really didn't see a problem with doing that.
Research on simulators has shown that even mild dehydration can have the same effect in terms of driving errors, mood, concentration levels as driving with alcohol or drugs in your system.
It's a shift in attitude, with these cars you have to look at things from a different perspective, in the greater scheme of things what real difference is there if you have to stop for an hour to have lunch while on a 7 or 8 hour journey to Scotland? Very little is so important that you can't take an hour's break on a journey to get somewhere.
As for doing 1500 miles in 24 hours, that's not clever, it's just madness. Once you strip out his stops that means 1500 miles in a little over 16 hours driving, average over 90mph.
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by MikeWilliams » Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:37 pm

Quote
It's a shift in attitude, with these cars you have to look at things from a different perspective
unquote

As the BBC News presenter said yesterday you just have to decide whether to use the windscreen wipers or the heater, but you can't have both. A car that automatically accelerates at its predetermined rate regardless of road, weather or traffic conditions sounds like a disaster to me and I can't see the IAM liking that?

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by colin7673 » Fri Feb 07, 2020 8:18 am

Wouldn't it just be better to use hydrogen cars, fill up like petrol and the only thing that comes out of the back is water...

Just have to make the fuel tank strong enough..

But I do believe there is a garage up north somewhere that sells it on the forecourt ( just one garage mind )
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by Steve Payne » Fri Feb 07, 2020 8:31 am

colin7673 wrote:Wouldn't it just be better to use hydrogen cars, fill up like petrol and the only thing that comes out of the back is water...

Just have to make the fuel tank strong enough..

But I do believe there is a garage up north somewhere that sells it on the forecourt ( just one garage mind )


There is also a place on the outskirts of Swindon, I have seen the signs.

As you say it has to be the logical way to go and I am sure Honda were developing this a few years ago.

Maybe this could also be used to heat and power our homes?

I am not sure why the government's have this obsession with electricity?

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by Basil McKinley » Fri Feb 07, 2020 10:35 am

Hydrogen will play an important part in the energy mix of the future. It will be produced using electricity derived from renewable sources using electrolysis. It can be used as a direct fuel or to power electric fuel cells. Electric fuel cell vehicles will compete with battery electric cars. Australia plans to export renewable energy in the future in the form of hydrogen produced from renewable sources by combining it with nitrogen to form ammonia which can be liquified at and shipped via bulk tankers. CSIRO have developed a process where ammonia can be converted back to high purity hydrogen suitable for use in fuel cells, and nitrogen. Ammonia can also be used as a fuel and Man Diesel and Turbo have already developed large marine engines designed to run on ammonia,

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by Richie » Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:19 pm

I'm going to Bristol and have a look at the Tesla on the weekend.
I rarely travel more in a day than than half the range of the car. As such, as I'll be plugging in at home, I'm confident I'll spend less time refuelling than I do now. Maybe once or twice a year I'll need to break a longer journey with a charge stop.

So as well as seemingly compelling numbers, this might even be more, not less, convenient.

And I could lease another very nice new car from the savings! Or another classic! I'm sure the domestic authority will have other ideas of course but you get the idea.
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