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Ultra Low Emission Zone - London

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by timmo » Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:42 pm

Whatever happened to Bio diesel? I used to use it all the time until it became popular, then they increased the price to over the cost of normal diesel and it disappeared.
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by colin7673 » Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:25 pm

Chris_R wrote:I've had no years in the haulage industry
Greggs (the bakers) Sainsbury's, Tescos, B&Q, Wickes (and others) still deliver to all their stores inside the LEZ. It won't end with the ULEZ, it will change again.


All big companies Chris are the ones who can afford all this equipment and the cost will, of course, be passed on to you and I, but what about the small companies, who have maybe have a couple of lorries who need to run these lorries 24/7 to make ends meet, all this will do is price them off the road, because of all the bigger companies will have the monopoly and will only pay the smaller company what they think they should be paid. Owning and running a lorry is not cheap, Simon, for instance, will have had to sit a CPC for an 'O' licence, which he had to pay for, for let says 5 lorries, then he would have to prove he has thousands of pounds in the bank, just in case, before he can even start to run these lorries, then he will have to have the land to park these lorries, then he will have to keep service records for every lorry he owns, have to have driver records, and drives to sign paperwork to prove they have had the right amount of rest, before he can drive. Then there's the Insurance and Tax, fuel, wages, plus lots of other things and you tell him just to go out a by another new lorry at over £120000. plus... As a lorry driver or owner, you can break any one of over Two Thousand laws before you have left the yard... This is the only job where you are braking the law if you do 'overtime' .... Its easy, isn't it.
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by Chris_R » Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:48 am

I didn't tell anyone to go and buy a new lorry. Controls on emissions have been in place since 2008 and getting tighter all the time, from 2012 lorries and vans over 3.5 tonnes had to be Euro 4. As I pointed out this measure has been coming since 2014, it hasn't suddenly appeared, any lorry or van bought since then that is Euro 6, will not pay the London ULEZ charge. At the moment this is limited to the relatively small area in Central London so people with older lorries (and vans) will be affected if they need to go into that area. And quite possibly in some way Londoners will have to pay for it. But something did have to be done, air quality in Central London is bad.
By the time the zone is expanded to the North/South Circular roads on October 2021 it will only be lorries that are older than 7 years that will have a problem. Some owners/businesses will have a problem if they haven't renewed their lorry in the preceding 7 years but many others will have renewed their lorry at some point in that time and they will continue unaffected. The ones that haven't then have to make their choice about what they do. Either pull out or renew perhaps earlier than they would otherwise have done.
It may seem odd that as a car enthusiast I support this measure but I am also a realist and while I can enjoy them now (perhaps that is selfish) I realise that over time there are going to be more and more restrictions and constraints placed on car use in towns and cities, from low emission zones to bus only roads to parking restrictions etc. At the moment we are fortunate that unlike in Australia where you are limited to 60 days per year use for historic cars, we can still use our classic cars as much as we like, including going into Central London. Although I would never want to do so.
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by Michael Richardson » Wed Apr 10, 2019 5:51 pm

Chris.Colin,Intrjen and all....Fascinating debate,and very informative. From my personal point of view,I will never attempt to drive into central London again during my lifetime...What is the point ? I can't park the car unless I pay a huge price.I can book a train ticket in advance as a retired person for about £10 return from the south coast straight into Victoria. Is this not the way that we should be going. As far as heavy vehicles are concerned,most of these needing to enter the zone are contracted by the likes of Tesco/Sainsbury/M&S to name a few. They will all be modern compliant trucks. Local parcel deliveries,which are beginning to take over the world will soon be all electric in the Capital. I feel sorry for small operators,however,I have been a small operator in the motor trade and we arrive at a point where we know our number is up..just like a butcher,a baker, or a ???
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by johnw » Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:11 pm

So my super eco small car, first car to do 3 Litres per 100km (which is 94.5+mpg) combined cycle back in 1999, first car to circumnavigate the UK at over 100mpg average, Emissions at 81g C02 per km, never made free congestion charge exemption, because it was too old. All the qualifying vehicles had higher emissions! Only vehicles made post 2000 qualified! it did qualify for the scrappage scheme despite there not being a more economical car to buy to replace it!

It is literally going to be cheaper to drive across London in an FF!
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by johnw » Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:48 pm

Chris_R wrote: we can still use our classic cars as much as we like, including going into Central London. Although I would never want to do so.

It is a great feeling to drive through London in an FF. I sold FF 73 to someone who lived in Bermondsey, on the South Bank, so used to pop over Tower Bridge in it. It is still around there! It is really nice driving in London at 1 or 2 am. Roads are fairly empty apart from taxis. Not done it for quite a few years though.

I remember the first day after the congestion charge. The roads were empty in London. I thought it was fantastic, £6 or whatever to get the roads to yourself. Within a few weeks it was back to normal.
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by Chris_R » Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:48 pm

John, your 1999 eco-car was probably either Euro 2 or Euro 3. The ULEZ requires Euro 4 as it's not based on CO2 emissions but based on the other ones.
Euro 3:
CO – 2.3 g/km
HC – 0.20 g/km
NOx - 0.15
PM – no limit

Euro 4:
CO – 1.0 g/km
HC – 0.10 g/km
NOx – 0.08
PM – no limit

You can see that Carbon Monoxide, Hydrocarbon and Nitrous Oxide limits have been at least halved. These are the ones that contribute to poor air quality. For these limits it doesn't matter if you have a 6litre Bentley or a 1 litre Smart car, both have to fall in the same limits.
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by JamesE » Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:30 pm

johnw wrote:So my super eco small car, first car to do 3 Litres per 100km (which is 94.5+mpg) combined cycle back in 1999, first car to circumnavigate the UK at over 100mpg average, Emissions at 81g C02 per km, never made free congestion charge exemption, because it was too old. All the qualifying vehicles had higher emissions! Only vehicles made post 2000 qualified! it did qualify for the scrappage scheme despite there not being a more economical car to buy to replace it!

It is literally going to be cheaper to drive across London in an FF!


Loads of lower emission cars that pre-date the 2004/5 legislation still qualify including Audi A2s, Smart Roadsters and more.
Truth is no one knows until they do the check (and even that seems pretty random): https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/check- ... icle-35896
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by John Staddon » Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:37 pm

Referring all the way back to Shaun's original post, a member of my local car club with a Ford Falcon Sprint told me a couple of days ago that he had used the Transport for London (TfL) ULEZ checker to confirm his car was exempt from the ULEZ charge, it is a historic vehicle so it should be, but it came up as NOT exempt, I then heard of several other classic car owners who have had the same experience. I had already checked the C-V8 when then ULEZ was first announced and it was shown as exempt but I decided to check again, and it now shows as NOT exempt, I then checked the early Interceptor and that also shows as NOT exempt. So TfL seem to have changed the way they check whether a vehicle is exempt and are showing many historic vehicles as not exempt when the TfL website states that historic vehicles are exempt. I can't help thinking the DVLA are behind this as there must be a link between the TfL checker and the DVLA database, but i have sent an enquiry to TfL asking why my car is shown as not exempt on the ULEZ checker.

John

p.s I have no intention of driving in the current ULEZ but in two years time I will live inside the expanded ULEZ so best to sort this out now.
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by shaun » Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:53 pm

This is weird.
Last week I checked my registration and I was exempt.
Two minutes ago when after John's post I am now not.
I have no idea what is going on.
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by shaun » Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:05 pm

I have just contacted the FBHVC on this issue. Several months ago I did find out that the TfL database had not connected with the DVLC's. Perhaps another "glitch".
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by John Staddon » Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:57 pm

If I get a reply from TfL I'll post it, but I do wonder if this is going to be a repeat of the MOT situation, your historic vehicle does not require an MOT so doesn't have one, the police check your car for an MOT for some reason or another and all the DVLA shows is that it doesn't have one, not that it doesn't require one. Similarly the DVLA does not record your car as a historic vehicle, or not on the database accessible to the public, so if the TfL computer checks with the DVLA computer it won't find that your car is a historic vehicle as that information isn't, or may not be, there.

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by Frankoid » Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:24 am

I was exempt but now I am not. I was sent to this site where you have to register your vehicle. I am guessing if you are not registered and drive through London you will be charged

https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/compli ... -you-start
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by Steve Payne » Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:29 am

I went to register my Jensen and it told me I didn't need to as it is exempt.

Very odd

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by colin7673 » Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:31 pm

Easy thing here, if you don't need to go or don't live in London its not a problem
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