Ultra Low Emission Zone - London

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Re: Ultra Low Emission Zone - London

Post by interjen »

I know it's a taboo subject and a sobering thought but as Colin previously mentioned "we are over populated" reason? One, we are generally living longer? Two, if you want to be put out of your misery you are not allowed? Is this perhaps something that needs newly looking into? My aunt has just died of vascular dementia, seeing this once proud lady formally a head mistress in her last days was quite disturbing for her and my mother, surely it's time to ease back on this nanny state we are forced to live in and start to consider where this side of things will be in 20 years. As someone has already suggested, we also inherited all this crap from our great great grandparents.
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Re: Ultra Low Emission Zone - London

Post by RockyUSA »

“Total Recall”

If all the women looked like Sharon Stone and Melina (and all us guys were like Ah-nold), it might not be too bad....
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Re: Ultra Low Emission Zone - London

Post by JHV8 »

There is a GOV website where you can check your cars eligibility, I was pleasantly surprised my current shed an old year 2002 BMW 320I touring was exempt.
https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra- ... ecker-ulez
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Re: Ultra Low Emission Zone - London

Post by timmo »

Apparently, black and silver plates are not picked up on those lovely covert car park cameras, so buy and drive a historic vehicle!. It makes more economical sense to keep a car for a lifetime than getting a new one every 3 years that is using vast amount of energy and natural recources just to make it in the first place. A new BMW i3 is apparently 90% recyclable, how is this a new thing? I reckon the Jensen Healey is pretty much all recyclable, its just steel, alloy and a little bit of plastic. No nasty chemicals or elements to dispose of either. What I always fail to understand is how poor new cars are on fuel efficiency, yes they may spit out water but what is the point when they only do 30 odd miles to the gallon? Follow the ethos of Colin Chapman and get rid of all the useless junk on new cars and put them back to their original purpose... How many of us hate with a passion that little dinging noise every time this is low/that's low, its too cold,its too hot, oh my tyre pressure has gone down 0.5 of a psi. Drives me crazy....

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Re: Ultra Low Emission Zone - London

Post by JamesE »

JHV8 wrote:There is a GOV website where you can check your cars eligibility, I was pleasantly surprised my current shed an old year 2002 BMW 320I touring was exempt.
https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra- ... ecker-ulez
Be careful, somewhere on the site I stumbled across a massive disclaimer that the site could not be used as proof and could be wrong. I suspect your BMW should not have got the all clear.
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Re: Ultra Low Emission Zone - London

Post by Steve Payne »

There is no sense in the way they are charging, I have a V8 MG ZT with a Mustang engine, mine was registered in 2006 so I am exempt. Putting in a number plate for one that was registered in 2004 and they need to pay. :shock:

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Re: Ultra Low Emission Zone - London

Post by Chris_R »

It makes a kind of sense Steve however ridiculous the result is. In all these kinds of things there is a cutoff date and things before that date do not qualify and things after that date do qualify.
Qualification for the ULEZ is based on declared emissions. To be exempt from the ULEZ the vehicle must have been declared compliant to Euro 3 for motorcycles, Euro 4 for petrol and Euro 6 for diesel when registered.
Euro 4 limits (for petrol) are
CO – 1.0 g/km
HC – 0.10 g/km
NOx – 0.08
PM – no limit

Euro 3 limits were
CO – 2.3 g/km
HC – 0.20 g/km
NOx - 0.15
PM – no limit

So you can see the limits roughly halved between Euro 3 (effective from January 2001) and Euro 4.
Euro 4 was only introduced in January 2005 and only became mandatory in January 2006 so a new car registered in 2004 cannot have been declared Euro 4 compliant, it will only be Euro 3 compliant even if it might meet the Euro 4 standards and therefore not be exempt even if it is identical in every respect. That is how come 2 cars of the same model registered in different years might be in both categories i.e. a later one exempt and the earlier registered one not exempt.
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Re: Ultra Low Emission Zone - London

Post by GregMVF4 »

This is complete and utter BS. NOTHING to do with emissions - it's just a way of screwing another chunk of change out of the motorist. Not only is my Interceptor Exempt (based on its taxation class apparently), but so are both my 600+hp Mercedes, and my 700hp Corvette (which also only carries two people). Ridiculous.
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Re: Ultra Low Emission Zone - London

Post by Chris_R »

Sorry Greg, it is. Your Interceptor is exempt based on lobbying from the FBHVC that it would impact historic events in central London, e.g. the London to Brighton runs. Your Mercedes may have 600bhp but they do it cleanly. This is not about the amount of energy used, this is about what comes out of the exhaust.
On the right is a filter from a monitoring station at Earls Court after just 1 day. On the left is the clean one. This is what they are tackling.
Filters.jpg
Filters.jpg (20.77 KiB) Viewed 2180 times
Unfortunately the use of fossil fuels is gradually becoming socially less acceptable as more people, particularly the younger people are becoming more aware, scientific evidence of the harm is growing and social media allows opinions to be shared more widely and more easily.
Instead of lorry and van owners moaning and seeing it as a problem they should see it as an opportunity, they could invest in the newer and cleaner lorries and vans and gain a competitive advantage over those that don't or won't invest and be able to do business to their advantage in the new zone and even more so when it expands.
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Re: Ultra Low Emission Zone - London

Post by GregMVF4 »

Chris I couldn't agree more - but the 'Congestion' charge has nothing to do with congestion, it certainly hasn't improved since it was introduced. And as a motorcyclist, in London, I have sat behind buses and taxis that belch out crap 24/7 - a ride in London is the only time I actually wear a covering over my nose and mouth. There is no doubt that something needs to be done, but this is misdirection - I have friends in the 'burbs' who are going to be facing making a payment to leave their cars on the drive.
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Re: Ultra Low Emission Zone - London

Post by GregMVF4 »

Oh - and not forgetting of course that smoky old diesel cabs are exempt, whereas Uber (which seem to be all Prius') are not. And no blanket exemption for motorbikes :0)
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Re: Ultra Low Emission Zone - London

Post by interjen »

Chris_R wrote: Instead of lorry and van owners moaning and seeing it as a problem they should see it as an opportunity, they could invest in the newer and cleaner lorries and vans and gain a competitive advantage over those that don't
So who is paying for this "opportunity" Chris? You realise to buy something to match my current 6 year old units a new lorry is circa £120,000-£150,000? I'm sorry but all I will do now as before and as many is boycott the city... And as more zones come into force we'll boycott those also and then when we can no longer operate we'll sell up and hand it all over to a foreigner who can operate in our country without any emission control... How does that create us UK hauliers with an opportunity??? People don't realise how cut throat our industry is they just see us as an open cheque book. Unfortunately our cheques are running out. When no-one can afford a pint of milk or loaf of bread because they are subsidising these "opportunities" who will be moaning then? Think on...
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Re: Ultra Low Emission Zone - London

Post by Chris_R »

According to reports that is exactly what the hauliers were saying 23 years ago in Sweden when they started introducing low emission zones but then, to quote the Swedes: "Then they realised it wasn't that bad and the big hauliers who invested in new vehicles realised they could make more money from having a good environmental profile, and they wanted the zone made bigger."
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Re: Ultra Low Emission Zone - London

Post by colin7673 »

Chris_R wrote:According to reports that is exactly what the hauliers were saying 23 years ago in Sweden when they started introducing low emission zones but then, to quote the Swedes: "Then they realised it wasn't that bad and the big hauliers who invested in new vehicles realised they could make more money from having a good environmental profile, and they wanted the zone made bigger."
That's also because the Swiss government gave some help in some ways, but over government don't give anything because they don't want lorries on the roads.. And I understand Chris you have had many years in the haulage industry
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Re: Ultra Low Emission Zone - London

Post by Chris_R »

I've had no years in the haulage industry but we heard the same complaints from the haulage associations over 11 years ago when the London LEZ was introduced and older lorries either had to have retrofits which in many cases was uneconomic due to the age of the lorry or they couldn't enter the Greater London area without penalty. The London world didn't end and 11 years on, life is much the same, there are lorries everywhere in London going about their business. The local SME businesses that I spoke to over 11 years ago in my area just inside the LEZ and who would be affected by the LEZ are still there, in the same locations and still doing the same business. Greggs (the bakers) continued to operate from inside the LEZ and lorries were coming and going all day into and out of the zone. The local car scrappy is still there, inside the zone. Sainsbury's, Tescos, B&Q, Wickes (and others) still deliver to all their stores inside the LEZ. It won't end with the ULEZ, it will change again.
This has been coming for at least the last 5 years since it was first proposed under Mayor Boris Johnson and the only change has been that 2 years ago Mayor Sadiq Kahn brought forward by 1 year to 2021 the expansion of the zone.
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