Concours Competition - Important announcement

[shaun]

An announcement from the Committee

The Last JOC Concours Competition

Sunday 24th June 2018

To all members,

Following on the from the discussion at the recent JOC Open Day regarding the future of Concours, the issue was discussed at the JOC Committee meeting held on Sunday 29th April 2018.

Based upon the number of entries reducing year on year and the members views expressed at the Open Day, the Committee took the decision that this year will be the final year that the Concours Competition will be organised.

This year, at the International, to be held at Abbey Hotel Great Malvern 22-24 June, the Concours will be held in conjunction with a Show’n’Shine competition for all cars in attendance.

Next year, a different format for the International will be adopted with the AGM moving to the Sunday and a driving event being organised for the Saturday to be followed by the Dinner and Dance in the evening. A Show’n’Shine will take place on the Sunday after lunch. (Please note these arrangements are currently provisional).

The Committee wishes to thank all those that have been involved with Concours over the years for their input and enthusiasm.

Shaun Winfield
Chairman
On behalf of the Committee

[Keith]

Sad day.

Ok, I've waited for other responses to this, and hours later there has been none.

Which certainly coincides with the committee's findings of the desire for a "concours competition".

Which is a great pity.

In the 1980s and 1990s the JOC Concours was the envy of the other major car clubs. It was a carefully and correctly run competition and the standards were exceptionally high. It was something for us to be proud of, and the competition really was the jewel in the JOC's crown.

In those days Jensen values were (perhaps) less than equivalent Jags and Astons, where with these marques it made financial sense to restore or maintain them to very high standards. With the Jensens, it was done for the passion of the marque.

Where has this passion gone?

As I said, a very sad day. But the lack of response to Shaun's announcement shows where the passion has gone.

[Richie]

It is indeed a sad day.
I had the privilege of being Concours sec for a few years, my tenure beginning, i think, in 2007.

It immediately struck me that even back then there were thrice as many standard trophies available as cars entering the competition; trophies that had once upon a time been awarded to competitors.

I don't think the decline of Concours is JOC issue, but one reflected across the classic car world. Even the top Concours competitions now award extra points if the cars are ... wait for it... driven. A car? Being driven! What a shocker. At the top end, whilst Concours will always have it's place, people prefer to see a 250GTO on the Goodwood race track rather than on the Goodwood House lawn.

So I think that the passion is shifting from admiring cars to using them. From a JOC perspective, perhaps Concours has been replaced with trips to for example, Italy, Saxony and yet to come the USA.

I wonder if the changing financial value of the cars that Keith touched on has an impact? Is today's generally necessarily wealthier owner less 'hands on' than previous ones? Perhaps there's an irony that more cars seem to be benefiting from full restorations yet fewer take part in Concours. Whether they're on the Concours lawn, or on the road, let's just hope that they're not hidden away as 'investments.'

I do indeed lament the decline of Concours. It's loss is a real shame, but it's decline has been a steady one, one that is, I feel, reflected across the wider classic car community.

[Eddie]

It’s a shame it is going, I love it...

Polishing clean bits for the sake of polishing clean bits is right up my street. Don’t get me wrong I also drive mine, but I love the competition and have taken part every year since I joined the club.

I will be sad to see this go, but last years showing of only 18 cars (from memeory) meant their was only one class. If more had entered there would have been more classes and more silverware on offer, which let’s face it is nice to come away with something shiny, it encourages you to try for higher next year.

But things move on, if it’s no longer popular it’s not really sustainable for just a few.

Hay ho...... onwards and upwards

[Eddie]

I have just been corrected, it was 10 cars that entered last year.

That means I was closer to last than I thought

Well with 10 cars that really does show it’s just not that popular any more....

[Jens]

I think it is a pity although I never did (and never will) compete in Concours.

I love the cars to be driven and at the moment the pendulum seems to swing in that direction. But I was always fascinated how people could spend complete days cleaning and polishing their cars in these romantic parking lots. And have fun with it. Seeing Ian Proudfoot's 541S compared to mine was two worlds colliding. I really admired his car.

Don't get me wrong: I love competition (doing classic car rallyeing for decades now)and that is why I see this with a tear in the eye but it has never been my cup of tea. And for only 10 or even less cars of 60+ attending at the International it doesn't really make sense anymore.

[Helen]

When I took on the Concours Secretary role for this year I had no idea it could be the last but so far there have been only 7 entries (remembering there used to be about 50 entries when Richie was in charge). It is very sad that as the quality and value of Jensens rises support for Concours is failing. However, I do think that there is still passion for the marque. Just take your car out for a drive and it always brings a smile to your face!

[colin7673]

I can only speak of this as a member of the JOC for the last 14 years and seen and heard why the Concours has lost Interest.
I hate to say this but its down to Judging, as over the years there has been many inconsistencies, which is the main reason why members have pulled away.

For my story why I don't enter, when we first got our car, the first concours was at Windsor, we was encouraged to enter in Bronze even though I didn't think our car was good enough, we came 14th out of 16, expected, next year we aimed do so much better, by hopefully wining 'Best Improved'. This was dropped the following year as it was said 'It would amount to the amount of money anybody could spend to Improve there car' and was deemed unfair.
Getting Judges always seemed to be a problem. The second year we entered, we had brought some steering parts form a well known Oxford based Jensen Specialist, the owner who that year was Judging Bronze, when this said person was Judging our car, he mentioned that, these parts where incorrect and therefore marked the car down, ( sold the wrong parts then )
The third year we entered, we was working Regalia, the car was at the other side of the car park, I was unable to be available for Judging, but somehow our car got damaged, on the drivers door, after this, I said I would never enter again.
But I know I am not alone in this, a car at one International, had just come from a complete restoration, It first real road test and won many awards,, ~Why? it had no Milage.
I know of another car, that got marked down for not having any tools, not even a jack, it was noted, but when being judged, this car stood up on Its Jack on the nearside holding both wheels off the ground.
Another International, a Yorkshire Based car was placed 12th, OUT OF TEN CARS.

When David Newby was chairman, he came up with the idea of a group of volunteers being 'Trained" in Concours Judging, the committee at that time agreed, I myself was one of them, but nothing happened, this was not 'followed through'. The idea was that if the "Normal Judges' were unable to attend an International, then the concours would have 'Back Up' Judges

Originality, this was another sticking point for judging, Alan Smith, when Chairman, use to argue this point because it was a hard point to judge, as, as Jensen were all hand built there would be many differences, if only slightly..

I know of a member that had Brand new carpets in the car, a week before the International, when Judged Carpets were marked down. Why?

These are just a few points, but If the truth be told, there may be many more.

I really do salute those that have entered year on year and keep their cars in better then A1 condition they are a pleasure to see and to look at and I hope that these cars are still seen at the International, but It would seem that the rot set in a years ago and nobody seemed to listen.

[Richie]

the 12th out of 10 cars could have made sense.
In order to maintain standards, there was a time that in order to score 1st, 2nd or 3rd in a category the car needed to achieve a certain portion of marks available. In other words, a car couldn't come 1st or 2nd if it wasn't up to the appropriate level - cars were judged against set standards as well as other competitors on the day.
Finding judges always was a challenge which inevitably led to frustrating differences one year to the next as a judges view was always subjective. As you may recall, sadly there were simply too few people that volunteered to form part of a regular team. Judging was always done by different people and therefore always "consistently inconsistent" yet entrant numbers remained high. Judging standard were always variable and therefore I feel have very little, if anything, to do with the decline of concours popularity, one that is reflected across the wider classic car world I think. Car shows appear to be increasingly being replaced by car events. Originality was always the lowest point scoring aspect - cars were judged on cleanliness first, then originality (whatever that was) secondary, with no deduction for non original changes made for safety eg seat belts and bigger brakes. Clean modern brakes would (or at least should) have scored more points than dirty original ones.

Its a shame that concours has declined in popularity to such an extent but as long as we keep seeing the cars out and about and at events, we still have great cause to smile.

[garyc]

Hello Guys

I agree it is a shame that the Concours is being dissolved especially in a club that is so steeped in History of both the Cars and the Club.

The Club has to move with the times so rather than just scrap the Concours why don’t we look at a different format for it as in its present form it is a very old fashioned process and obviously doesn’t appeal to the majority of members anymore.

The club has all the trophy`s for Concours and for each individual model of car already it would be a shame not to continue to give these out

I think the lack of interest is down to a few things there’s not much shown in the magazine about it and times have changed and I think the format is not user friendly for the entrants and the organisers.

A lot of people are put off entering due to the old fashioned formal style of the event and marking by judges and of course no one likes to have their car criticised which is in effect what happens or indeed to come last.

Why don’t we look at bringing it a bit more up to date and do a competition similar to the Show and Shine that everyone enters automatically just by turning up but take it onto the next level and the Club Members vote for the best cars similar to the Show and Shine as has already been said this was a popular event

It could be called JOC Concours and Cars of the Year Award or something else

I haven’t had much time to think about it but the format could be along the lines of this

Everyone who has their Jensen with them is automatically entered just by turning up, it’s up to them how much preparation they want to do but most people clean their cars before coming anyway.

We could issue each member with 1 ticket with 4 boxes one for each model
Interceptor/FF/SP
CV8
541
Healey
The member writes his membership number down and the registration of each car he thinks is best then a cross in another box for which car he thinks is the overall best out of his choice.

The cars that have the most votes in their models would win the Best of Show Trophies.(which already exist)

The next level up would be these 4 Best of Show Trophies winners either judged further by Concours Judges or the winner can be decided by how many votes it got with the extra cross in the box on the ticket these cars could be awarded Concours Trophies 1st , 2nd and 3rd to the cars with the highest votes

This alone would seriously cut down on the organising of the event

The other thing is it then involves all the club members and they are having an input into the final decision if some of the people decide not to fill in the forms then there will still be a number of members who do and the decision can be based on that whether its 20 or 80 people if people moan about the winners then next time perhaps they will fill the form in

I can see many people disagreeing with me and saying that Concours should be judged on points by only certain people but this obviously is not working anymore....... but taking averages into account you probably would come up with the correct decision for the winners we did something similar at Gaydon and Keith’s FF came 1st and John (Kermit) came 2nd I think everyone agreed these were the 2 best cars there so why not have all the members judge the cars.

This way the club keeps its tradition with the Concours albeit in a slightly diluted form but as above the 2 best cars were voted at Gaydon by the members so if it was full Concours judging would the results have been the same at Gaydon I think they probably would have been.

If the reason for not having it is someone to organise it then if you are willing to change the format to something where all the members vote and simplified like the above then I’ll do it rather than see another tradition fall by the way side I think it just needs a change of format to bring it up to date and get everyone involved in the competition and make it all a bit more fun more of a multiple Show and Shine with Trophy’s

Lastly if the above goes ahead I think there should be a special magazine just for the competition with a page each on the 20 highest marked cars with a photo and a bit of history about the car and owner.
Again the owner can supply the details if he wants to be in the magazine if not it falls to the number below him in the competition it would be a good record for the history of the cars and the club moving forward.

The above is just a suggestion and the more people who comment or add/improve on it the more chance we have of coming up with something which could be viable for the club

GaryC

[felixkk]

Good input Gary. My thoughts were to make the concourse much more restrictive and selective. Maybe 4 or 5 cars, regardless of the model. Only by invitation, recommendation or application. Trailering to the International is allowed. Maybe there is even prize money. Small jury of 5 or 6 people, maybe involving the contintental/international clubs. Maybe a guest juror. One issue of the magazine dedicated solely to these 4 or 5 cars. The very best examples of the freshly restored, the highly maintained but also the original unmolested cars. Maybe held not every year, but every other year...

[VFK44]

May I congratulate the Committee on having the bravery to take this sad but probably necessary decision. Having said that, Gary seems to have some excellent ideas and these should be explored.

I hope that the owners continue to bring and display immaculate cars, as most of us enjoy admiring them. Without the need to preserve the highest degree of cleanliness, all owners should be now free to join in driving events on both days of the International. I think most of us can discern the best car even if it gets a bit of road dust or mud on it.

[Richie]

Great post Gary.
If I'm reading it correctly, what you're suggesting is a bigger version of 'Member's choice', subdivided into each model?
I think your idea has potential and worthy of further consideration and development.

[Mark1Stu]

I dont think the format for next year is settled Gary - so your and other people's thoughts and ideas are welcome. I too like the idea of member participation. Hand out a stub of voting slips by model (perhaps along with a basic 'What to consider when voting' handy hints), and let the people decide - either as you say Gary or with a second round for the top X number (either model specific or all comers....the latter would be easier to administer), again voted by members but this time also JOC officials. The scores from members are ranked and weighted. Ditto the 'officials' results (same weighting applies). The scores are combined to establish the winner and top 3 positions. Bit like Strictly Come Dancing! Whether you call it a derivative of Show and Shine or Concours, I'm not sure.

You'd need a megaphone or PA system to start and end the voting. You'd need to flag the cars to be voted a second time. But it would make it more fun to my eyes - and perhaps encourage more people to stay until the awards.

At the end of the day, it should be about having a go, and having fun for most of us. Although I accept its more serious at the high end of concours, which JOC club members still excel at.

And what if the wrong car gets the award? Well, to my mind that's nothing new. I remember one car winning which had such rippled flanks I was astounded. But no doubt it was the most scrupulously clean car there.

[Richie]

Just read Felix's post which I think was posted while I was typing my previous.
Another good post - quality over quantity.
Maybe this could run alongside Gary's inclusive idea, the winner(s) of which could possibly be promoted to the selective Concours the following year...?