Agreed Insurance Valuation

[NigelK]

Dear All

I have just finished the annual rigmarole of providing the information my insurer (Adrian Flux) requires for the agreed insurance valuation of my GT. This included photographs, copies of receipts of all works done, a lengthy handwritten form, and a JOC valuation (thanks again Lewi).

Adrian Flux came back to me yesterday with a valuation more than 10% below the JOC valuation. They have given me the option of challenging their valuation via the Institute of Automotive Engineers and Assessors or by commissioning an alternative valuation from http://www.classiccarvaluations.co.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

Based on your experience, especially those of you who own Jensens (or other classic cars) which are sufficiently rare such that there is no "going market price" because the model changes hands so rarely, is it worth me incurring the expense and effort of challenging my insurer's valuation?

Grateful for any suggestions. Many thanks!

Best wishes,
Nigel

[Eddie]

That all sounds like a bit of a ball ache.

Not sure what I would do, but I have never had any trouble with agreed valuation using Classicline insurance.

[Kevin Birch]

I dropped Adrian Flux for the same reason, they accepted a valuation of my car at the time of £15000, but when the policy came through, they valued it at what I had paid for the car, which was £12000. Ensuing arguments over what was an AGREED value and not what one party thinks. I won the day but it took a couple of months, and I never renewed. I will be shopping around this year, as I'm with Classicline, and I've just had full settlement, 53 weeks after the accident. They had to be pushed at every level to process the claim, then 2 and a half months to get my excess back, which I feel is unacceptable.

[Chris_R]

Nigel, I have heard from elsewhere of the rigmarole imposed by Adrian Flux. Check with other brokers like Heritage, Hagerty as well as ClassicLine and question their approach and procedure for agreed valuations.
That said, agreed valuation is a bit of a double edged sword. It places a limit, an agreed limit, on the amount the insurer pays out in the event of a total loss. Insurers like that kind of arrangement because they can quantify precisely their potential liabilities. If your agreed limit is OK, no problem. If your agreed limit is too low, no problem for the insurer, they will pay to the limit but it will leave you short.
The fundamental principle of car insurance is that in the event of a total loss the amount paid out is supposed to enable you to be put back into the position you were in before the total loss. Not a better position, nor a worse position, but the same. For modern cars, suppose you had a 2003 BMW 520 with a certain specification and it was written off, the insurance payout should enable you to go out and buy an exact same specification 2003 BMW 520 in a similar condition with a similar mileage for the amount they pay you. For this they use price guides and they are supposed to pay the "guide retail price". They will often try to offer less for one reason or another and they will try to find reasons why your car is perhaps not worth the guide retail price, their job is to make money by paying out as little as possible and getting as much premium income as possible.
For classic or specialist vehicles insurers are expected to consult other specialist price sources. Note there I say expected. In other words if they do not do so then they are in the wrong. This principle has been laid down by the Financial Ombudsman and is documented in their newletters which are almost bibles to the industry. I know for a fact that this works as I have had this argument in the last 12 months on my Classic Range Rover which after a claim was initially written off with a value of £1300. Just look up classic Range Rover prices and try to get anything other than a MOT failure wreck for anything less than £1500. They just went from their book price and failed to take notice of other price guides and price sources. Land Rover Monthly magazine price guide ranges from £3100 - £5200 for an average car and £5200 - £7500 for a good one. Using these specialist other publication guides I was able to establish a price point and was able to get my claim settled. There was not any agreed value on my Range Rover.
The Hagerty valuation tool gives the following figures:
Fair: £4,800, Good: £7,000, Excellent: £11,000 and Concours: £14,200. You should be able to justify one of those price points without much difficulty. If you want a valuation above £14,200 you will need to collect comparable evidence that shows the prices of these cars. Search back on the internet at various auction sites and look for any that have been sold in the last 12 months or so and gather evidence about the price and the condition. You will need that anyway so if you start to gather that, in the unfortunate event of a loss you will have that background evidence to support any claim that might need to make. If their valuation is too low, the fact that they imposed a lower figure on you would not sit well with the financial ombudsman if you complained as they generally take a dim view of insurers and others being unfair to the public.

[Gary-D]

That all sounds like a bit of a ball ache.

Not sure what I would do, but I have never had any trouble with agreed valuation using Classicline insurance.

Agree with Eddie it seems a bit OTT, I've just changed mine to Lancaster which was £50 cheaper from my last provider I also increased my valuation by 50% from last year, all done on-line but also called them to ensure I covered everything, pretty straight forward.

[Steve Payne]

I know a classic bike owner who had an agreed value policy with Adrian Flux, all was OK until the bike was stolen and they started quibbling about the agreed value. They reckon it was over valued by 25% and said they would only pay the lesser value unless he could prove it was worth more, fat chance as he didn't have it.

Anyway to cut a long story short and in the end the insurance ombudsman got involved and he did get a full pay out.

Steve

[Joe Schiavone]

I live in the states. I got my insurance through State Far m. Agreed value 85 K. Had an accident. About $8,000. They paid every Hour charged. No problems. My knowledge of the Insurance Industry is to have the necessary coaver age have everything documented as to condition and if you have a claim prove with at least 3. Examples proving the cost of replacement. No they are not going to pay me $80,000 for a total loss if the value drops to $70. They will pay $80,000 if I can prove replacement up to $80,000. The insurance company typically will not balk if you prove your point so stay abreast of values of similar condition. RacerJoe

[Mark Ell]

I am going through the same with Adrian Flux as well, the policy has come back agreed (by them) at 45k and I have a valuation more than this so may go through the hoops with them

[Chris_R]

I am going through the same with Adrian Flux as well, the policy has come back agreed (by them) at 45k and I have a valuation more than this so may go through the hoops with them

Why not try the opposite. Challenge them to justify their valuation and ask them what evidence they have to vary your valuation. Not by phone, do it in writing by letter.
However, the Hagerty valuation tool for an Interceptor III has the following:
Condition 2: Excellent
#2 cars could win a local or regional show. They can be former #1 cars that have been driven or have aged. Seasoned observers will have to look closely for flaws, but will be able to find some not seen by the general public. The paint, chrome, glass and interior will all appear as excellent. No excessive smoke will be seen on startup, no unusual noises will emanate from the engine compartment. The vehicle will drive as a new car of its era would. No customisations have been made. The one word description for #2 cars is "excellent."

Is your car better than this? Remember, the intent of the valuation is to enable you to replace your car with one of an equivalent standard should you be unfortunate enough to suffer a total loss of your car.

[Mark Ell]

What does condition 1 say?

[Joe Schiavone]

Chris. Your statement is dead on. One exception in my opinion is a number 2 car that was not a rust repaired car. This to many places the car to a collector of greater value than one that was extensively rebuilt. The documentation is of great value especially in theft situations. The basic standard for the insurance co is to replace the cars value with an equal car. That is why you have to do so much homework to prove your value with an example-S verses theoretical equivalents. RacerJoe

[Chris_R]

What does condition 1 say?

It's available on the Hagerty website at http://www.hagertyinsurance.co.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; or http://www.hagerty.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (for the USA).
Condition 1: Concours
Condition #1 vehicles are the best in the world. The visual image is of the best car, unmodified, in the right colours, driving onto the lawn at the finest concours. Perfectly clean, the car has been groomed down to the tire treads. Painted and chromed surfaces are mirror-like. Dust and dirt are banned, and materials used are correct and superbly fitted. No customisations have been made. The one word description for #1 cars is "concours."

As RacerJoe says, if you want a specific value outside from where various specialist publications e.g. Classic Cars price guide etc. place it then you will need to do homework to prove your case or get an appraisal from an independent source such as that proposed in fact by Adrian Flux. The risk there is you might not get the result you hope for.

This one was for sale recently http://m.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C842339" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; apparently with a documented insurance valuation of £20,000, quite a way above other price points. Either it was exceptional or the price guides are wrong. When something is only rarely sold, the price guides have little empirical evidence to go on.

[Mark Ell]

It would be interesting to know if there are any Jensen's in category 1. No rust repair and no mods? That must be one of the rarest cars in the world. Is there a catigory that says completely sorted, all rust has been completely removed, reapairs have been carried out to the highest standard, mechanically it is perfect and runs like a modern car?

[Steve Payne]

There was a car at one of the Internationals a few years ago that was original in every detail and had covered less that 15k miles. It was like new as far as I could see.

I wonder what happened to it as I have never seen it again, it was cream if my memory serves me correctly and I think it was at the International we had near Stratford.

Steve

[garyc]

One thing everyone should be aware of Agreed valuations are very different from just being asked by your insurer how much your car is worth during your new or renewal telecom enquiry.

They may offer you the chance of an agreed valuation if they don't you should ask....as suggested in previous posts if this is not agreed you can expect to have to haggle over the value if the car is damaged/ written off.
For an agreed valuation it may cost an extra charge (mine was £25) this is for the additional paperwork.

You are then sent a form to fill in giving a detailed description of your vehicle with recent photographs. (You need to do this again at your next renewal with new photographs/ info)
This is then agreed or discussed with your insurer untill you both agree on a valuation figure.
My figures in the past have been agreed with the supporting evidence you also need to take into account the cost of the equivalent value of a replacement car...best not to be too conservative your car may be worth more than you think.

The key to all this is having a guaranteed figure agreed in writing with your insurance company
This is legally binding and they would find it very hard to get out of paying you this figure if you did have to claim.

If you haven't had to submit an additional guaranteed document form with evidence to support you haven't got a guaranteed figure policy in place....which could mean you would not get the figure you thought if anything did happen to your car.
Also you would be wise to check the figure each year as year on year increases could surprise you.
Garyc