P66 for sale?

[Trevithick]

The P66 being smaller, lighter, more agile (?) than the C-V8- where there any plans by Jensen for them performing on the race track?

Now that would have been a sight, if it hung on until 1969 the Six Pack engine would have been available as well.

[felixkk]

P666Pack- that would have been something

[Trevithick]

P666Pack- that would have been something

I'm liking the number.

[DerekCV8]

I think the time has come for me to tell a story......

Having spent 7 years restoring my basket case Jensen C-V8, followed by another 5 1/2 years restoring my early Interceptor cabriolet, I found myself in the position of being able to buy the Jensen P66 Prototype, a car I had admired as an ENTHUSIAST for many years. The car was MOT'd and roadworthy (or so I thought) and looked presentable, so I chose not to carry out a detailed inspection and, after negotiations that went well in excess of my original budget, I purchased the car. It was not as if I could buy another P66 elsewhere, so I accepted the deal in good faith thinking I would be able to enjoy driving the car for several years before doing any significant work (as I would expect of a car at this price)...... how wrong I was.....

It very soon became apparent that the car was almost undriveable, causing me major problems attending the first three events of 2013. These included the engine dying and brakes binding on solid..... issues that put me in a very difficult and embarrassing situation on several occasions with queues of traffic behind me. Some may also recall the clouds of smoke as I tried to manoeuvre the car at the Bourne Classic Car Show. I quickly made the decision that this could not carry on and some major work was required.

This began with the removal and total rebuild of all the running gear, during which many problems were found, including a major (3/8" thick, 3" diameter) steel spacer/grease seal MISSING from the nearside rear hub. It couldn't fall off.... so was simply never there! Strange how something so significant, the lack of which actually prevented the wheel bearing from being adjusted, had been missed for so many years... and still passed MOT's? I had new ones specially remanufactured. With all this work done over a considerable time and at considerable expense, I drove the car again, only to find that the problems persisted with the brakes binding, clutch burning and engine dying.

I then decided to go to the next stage, removal of the engine and transmission for further investigation, during which I would "tidy up" the engine bay. The engine had a score down number 1 bore..... so went away with the heads for a total rebuild..... more HUGE expense (remember, I had already exceeded my budget when buying the car?). The transmission was also fully rebuilt, sourcing a very unusual bearing, that is almost unobtainable now, from the States..... and grabbing a couple of spares while I had the chance to ensure the transmission can be rebuilt again in the future if necessary!

The "tidy up" of the engine bay turned into a massive amount of work due to severe rust in the footwells (you would think someone who had owned the car for 25 years would know about that, wouldn't you?). The entire front of the car had to be removed to gain access and do the job properly. All new steel sections were formed and the rusty sections removed. During this time, I found evidence of appalling work that had been carried out, I understand, back in the early 90's whilst it belonged to the owner of the last 25 years.

The binding brake problem was eventually found to be the setup between the Master Cylinder and Servo. Two of the brake fluid reservoirs had been replaced with non original ones. As originals are pretty much unavailable, I had new ones specially manufactured. More expense, but I wanted it right. More shoddy workmanship was found on the clutch mechanism (again whilst belonging to the previous owner).... amazed it actually worked. All of this was put right and is now of a high standard.

The footwell vent operating flaps had been left disconnected, as if they never existed, and the holes for the control knobs incorrectly used for a fan override switch and (incorrect) bonnet release.... totally non original. Had the previous owner bothered to look over those 25 years, it would have been blindingly obvious how things should have been set up. Was this the way to treat such a rare and important car? Again, all put right now and the correct bonnet release mechanism installed.

With the engine and transmission back in and engine bay professionally repainted, I made the decision to replace the windscreen. There was a chip in the original and I figured that, if the screen became broken, then it would be too late to use it as a pattern. So.... parting with big bucks yet again, I had the tooling specially made.... again because my thoughts were about doing what I could to ensure this car can be maintained in the future.... whoever should own it? Anyone can now buy a P66 windscreen from Pilkington!

Moving on..... I decided to tackle the interior. The rear seating components and side panels were in an awful state with all the plywood backing badly delaminated. This was evident soon after I purchased the car, so someone who had owned it for 25 years MUST have known about this. Another huge amount of work was undertaken to very carefully remove the original covering, rebuild all the wooden parts with new plywood, using the old wood as patterns where possible. This enabled me to refit everything back.... even using the original screw holes, as I didn't want to just drill another load of holes everywhere, as many people would?

I could go on.... the tricky dashboard repairs (it was cracked).... the total re-wiring of the front end.... the re-chroming, the waxoyling (including coating the insides of the chassis tubes with oil)... etc... etc...... but you get the idea..... Oh.... and I really should mention that the wrong exhaust manifold had been fitted to the right hand bank and it was fouling the bodywork! Something else an owner of 25 years MUST have known about? Yes.... original manifolds are expensive... but that's what the car now has back on it..... as it should have had all along.

Despite all this, not ONCE did I "bleat" to the previous owner or belittle his character in selling me a car with so many problems.... problems that he MUST have known about. In fact, quite the opposite.... I remained friends and kept him updated with my progress on the car.

Partly due to the vast additional expense of this restoration work (tens of thousands), I made the decision to sell my Jensen C-V8, but I accepted that because I felt the P66 was worth it.

I'm sorry if this is rather long winded, but the story doesn't end yet...... After over 18 months of getting all these things right, I was at last able to drive the car in 2015 without the fear of breakdown .... and with everything working as it was meant to. The 2015 and 2016 seasons rewarded me with some great shows, including the NEC and the Goodwood Festival Of Speed. Unfortunately, things in life have a habit of changing..... and so it was with me. Circumstances changed in my life from early 2015..... and one of those changes was a health issue (I wonder if that had been thought about before the previous comments were made?). This has been a source of concern to me for nearly two years now, but I've been working hard to put it right.... and slowly getting there. During this time, particularly in 2016 at the various events I attended with the car, I was advised by many professional people in the classic car world as to what the potential value of the car could be. In light of the previously mentioned circumstances, I started to look into this further and decided that, IF I could realise a figure somewhere around what was being suggested, then selling the car was the right thing for myself and my wife, Julie. But let's make it clear here...... I didn't set the price..... others set the price for me with their advice... and my view was simply that, IF I could realise that figure, then it would be right for Julie and I at this time in our lives to let it go. Had I been advised a lower figure.... it's very unlikely the car would now be on the market. Lets also remember... the value's were suggested on the car AFTER the massive amount of work I had carried out. Let's not compare that to its value when I purchased it?

While we are talking figures.... "quadrupled"..??..... I wish?!! In fact, nowhere near that!! IF it sells, that's not the figure I get...... and just read above to have a guess at the TRUE cost of the P66 to me?

So... here we are.... the car IS for sale at the figure that others have suggested...... but it hasn't sold yet.... and maybe it won't...... and maybe I'll have the car back.... and maybe I'll sell it for less.... and maybe I'll be happy with that..... or maybe I'll do more work on it and keep it longer....(yes... still more work required!)....... a lot of maybe's..... but this is my first route and we'll see what happens?

So... I ask you.... who has been the better custodian for this unique car...?.... the person who initially did the work to get the car back roadworthy and repainted in its original colour...... only to let it languish for the next 20 years or more in a garage, where it barely saw the light of day (some tax discs never even went on the car from one year to the next and no change in the mileage readings), constantly deteriorating, with no further effort to rectify so many problems... and leaving so many areas "incorrect" or not working at all....... or the person who had the car for a much shorter period, but personally worked bloody hard to bring it up to a far higher standard, ensuring "correctness" wherever possible, showing it regularly to bring both it (and the Jensen marque) well deserved publicity, and ensuring it's condition will help it survive for many years to come. I'll let you decide.

It's a great shame that the bigger picture was not taken into consideration before such harsh remarks were made publicly about my character. Such is life......

[PaulMcElhinney]

"I'm not a showy sort of chap so kept a lowish profile most of the time."

He'll be keeping an even lower profile now.

[Pymmie]

Derek,

A well thought and honest explaination from a genuine chap.

You just missed out one thing..

You want to spend the money on Rivrons SP !

John P

[ajc9415]

Fantastic work on his car Derek and you deserve every penny that someone is prepared to pay for it. I wish you all the best.

[felixkk]

Good luck with the sale, Derek. Sort it out with Mike privately, please. No point in having a public tribunal.

[nrb993]

Whatever - The P66 is a Jensen and Jensen are the Greatest and this is a true special Jensen - Well done to all who have kept and looked after the P66, otherwise it could have been lost forever.

Neil

[PaulMcElhinney]

Good luck with the sale, Derek. Sort it out with Mike privately, please. No point in having a public tribunal.

Felix, I'm sure you'll agree with me that Derek didn't put this grievance into the public domain. Having been publicly criticised I feel that he has the right to reply publicly. No one wants acrimony but everyone has the right to reply.

[felixkk]

Felix, I'm sure you'll agree with me that Derek didn't put this grievance into the public domain. Having been publicly criticised I feel that he has the right to reply publicly. No one wants acrimony but everyone has the right to reply.

I was contacted a month or two ago by a seller of an interceptor asking if I had any experience with sales contracts, he wanted to make sure that the buyer wouldn't sell the car immediately or even within the next few years. I felt that once the car belonged to the new owner, it should be up to him to decide what he (in this case it was a she) does with the car and if he wasn't comfortable with the buyer then he shouldn't sell.

Having said that I still feel I have a responsibility to take extra good care of the C-V8 because in some ways I feel it is still the previous owner's car and sometimes I feel like he is looking over my shoulder. Hartmut had the car for 40 years, it was always on the road, and he did a lot of work on the car and obviously cherished it.

It's a shame that the P66 didn't go into production, and that there is only one of them!

[Frankoid]

It's a shame that the P66 didn't go into production, and that there is only one of them!

Ditto 541 V8

[felixkk]

It's a shame that the P66 didn't go into production, and that there is only one of them!

Ditto 541 V8

Yes, absolutely!

[MikeWilliams]

What an extraordinary outburst!

I know that I am better at some tasks than others, so unlike Derek, I put specialist jobs out to experts rather than attempting to do it all myself. Work was done by Jensen Parts and Service, Ian Orford, Rob Ransley and other well know specialists. The car was routinely serviced and MOT’d by a highly respected but general local garage who would be most offended at the suggestion of “bent” MOTs, though I do agree that some of the mechanical work apparently found is disappointing, to say the least, a bit like the standard of Jensen welding!

During my ownership it was absolutely 100% reliable. Whilst my V12 was having teething problems, more than once we abandoned a trip, drove home, jumped into the P66 and set off again with no preparation, and with no problems whatsoever. Why it should require such major attention to the engine, gearbox, axle, brakes and other parts all at once, at such low mileage and so soon after Derek took over I can only speculate, which (unlike some it would seem) I am not prepared to do.

It is true that during the last three or four years it was not much used, which is why I decided to sell it -for the sake of the car – but, as was explained at the time, we had recurring problems with the speedo cable drive, so annual mileage readings are unreliable. I tried to use it but also to conserve it.

Derek and I have different views on unique vehicles – I prefer conservation and he went for restoration. He was told all about the delaminating rear seat plywood for instance, but I wanted to keep it original rather than replace it. I believe that the footwell fresh air vents were never finished when new (certainly Dick Graves believed that to be the case when I asked him) so rather than take even an educated guess at what they might have been like, I preferred to leave them as found. The same applies to the manifold and the bonnet release ... it is not a question of right or wrong – just a difference of opinion on keeping or replacing. I would not have fitted after-market power mods to the engine of such an historic car, but that too is just a difference of opinion.

If anyone cares to re-read my post on here, my wording may not have been perfect, but the point I was making – the ONLY point I was asking, is whether owners felt they should try to seek an owner who would look after the car’s best interests, or sell via an agent or at auction to the highest bidder with no control and no care as to what happens to it. The first part of my post suggests that you may as well go for the price as nothing else is certain, however careful you are, but I was seeking opinions and suggestions.

As for the suggestion of racing? I suspect those who mention it have never driven the car! On the open road on a summer day in the dry it is an absolute delight to drive, supremely comfortable and has great acceleration when needed. But for competition it is oversprung, under-damped, under-cooled, the rear axle fixing design is seriously defective and broke for at least four of the owners and the rear end brakes away under power at the drop of a hat, as I found several times. In SP form it would be uncontrollable and dangerous - in my opinion. But, it is a prototype and compared with many other prototype cars we are very lucky that it is so very good – whether kept original or restored.

Sorry to hear of your problems Derek and hope they don't stop your enjoyment of motoring, but I do hope you approve of the new owner, whoever and whenever that is, assuming you ever even find out who it is. And if at the same time you make what Colin called "life changing" money, then good luck to you, I don't begrudge that one little bit. There are more important things in life, like the continuing custodianship of classic cars!

Mike

[Keith]

Good response Mike.