No politics? Oh dear...

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Richie
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Re: No politics? Oh dear...

Post by Richie »

Even if (and, despite the results of the referendum, that's a very big if indeed) the UK does leave the EU, very little will change. The UK will still have to contribute to the budget, and in order to access the free market, will have to allow freedom of movement and meet standards set by the EU. That was one reason why I was on the remain side - what's the point of leaving? still making contributions, still freedom of movement, still meeting regulations...

If another of the larger economies that comprise the EU also vote to leave, things may change - but in that case, I suspect that the EU will introduce some changes. The UK plus whichever other nation votes out, then get asked again if we want to remain within / join the "improved" EU...
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Re: No politics? Oh dear...

Post by Frankoid »

I dont think we will leave. Thats why I voted leave, its good to rattle the cage once in a while. Meanwhile Jeremy Corbin is one of the few men who has bought cross party consensus uniting the house. They all say

"You are good , decent, principled man. You have no place in Parliament " :lol:
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Re: No politics? Oh dear...

Post by Richie »

Frankoid wrote:
"You are good , decent, principled man. You have no place in Parliament " :lol:
:D :D :D

indeed

and it seems like we're not done with referendums yet: from Sniffpetrol...

British people to get Button referendum

The government has confirmed today that the British public will be given a vote on whether Jensen Button stays within the McLaren team in a controversial poll already dubbed ‘Buttxit’.

‘For too long JB has had to live under the restrictive regime of the failing McLaren organisation,’ explained a spokesman for the Buttxit camp. ‘Every year McLaren pays Jensen £10m and if we vote Leave that money could be spent on the NHS or some other fictional claim we’re going to renege on immediately.’

‘JB needs to take back control and regain his sovereignty,’ the Buttxit spokesman continued. ‘Although what I’m really doing is using meaningless statements to mask the fact I secretly hate people from Surrey.’

‘The Buttxit camp talk about all the benefits of leaving McLaren,’ countered a leading Jenstay campaigner. ‘But these are all highly theoretical and there is no guarantee of an increase in punditry, Le Mans drives, and being able to open a Honda dealership like Derek Warwick.’

‘Experts are already warning that a Buttxit could set the team back 50 years,’ noted a McLaren insider. ‘Which would be a welcome performance boost for us.’
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Re: No politics? Oh dear...

Post by Arne »

23.6. Brexit
27.6. Brexit 1:2
30.6. Borexit

how much will follow? :D

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Re: No politics? Oh dear...

Post by colin7673 »

It's all got a bit silly really,, One day we will wake up and it will all be over because something else will be on the News at Ten.
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Chris_R
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Re: No politics? Oh dear...

Post by Chris_R »

This whole thing raises an interesting constitutional issue that has not been discussed by either side during the entire referendum process.
Under the UK constitution, a referendum result outside of a general election has no legal binding unless the legislation for the referendum make it clear that the result is binding. The legislation for the EU in/out referendum contained no such wording and therefore the result is only "advisory", not binding.
Our democracy is a parliamentary democracy and Parliament, not the Government is supreme. The Prime Minister cannot issue a declaration to the EU under Article 50 of the Treaty of Lisbon unless authorised by an Act of the United Kingdom Parliament. There is such a thing under the UK constitution as the Royal Prerogative which does allow executive orders without recourse to Parliament but critically an order by Royal Prerogative cannot override any existing statute. Several Acts of Parliament would be overridden and become meaningless if the UK exits the EU so therefore using the Royal Prerogative is not available to the Prime Minister to invoke Article 50. Only Parliament itself, by Act of Parliament can override any existing statute.
Furthermore, our parliamentary democracy is a representative democracy, not a direct democracy and Parliament is not bound to follow the results of the referendum. As some of the claims made by the leave campaign unravel, Parliament may decide that exiting the EU is not in the best interests of the UK or it may decide that the case for Brexit was made, or was gained, under a false prospectus and Parliament may decide to reject the referendum result. Any of our representatives who did decide in this way would have to justify themselves to the electorate at the next general election. Parliament may of course also follow the expressed wish of the referendum result and immediately authorise the Prime Minister to issue the notice to the EU under Article 50 of the Treaty.
In summary, the next action should be in the hands of our elected representatives, not the Prime Minister.

The other thing that the Brexit campaigners did not really reveal is the way an exit would take place. After a notification under Article 50 of the Treaty of Lisbon, the departing state and the EU have a 2 year period under which to negotiate the terms of the new relationship between the EU and the departing state. If at the end of that 2 year period there is no agreement concluded the departing state simply leaves the EU with no agreement in place at all. All aspects of all treaties that the UK signed will simply cease to apply. An extension to that 2 year time can be granted by unanimous agreement of the European Council, which of course will require the European Council to have a desire to grant that extension.
Article 50 of the Treaty of Lisbon was written in such a way that it massively favours the EU over the departing state. Let's be quite clear about this, there is no obligation or requirement of the EU to complete the exit negotiations within the 2 year time period. It is simply a time period allowed for the negotiation and as indicated, if such negotiations are not concluded in that time period the UK will exit with no agreements of any kind in place.
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Re: No politics? Oh dear...

Post by Richie »

And sorting all that needs to be sorted within two years is a mammoth task, to say the least.
Which probably part explains why Boris decided he didn't much fancy the job of PM... The mess he's created can be cleared up by someone else. The exaggerated claims he made during the leave campaign would've come back to haunt him. Even Guto Harri, BJ's communications director stated today that "... as a politician, he is now busted and it's down to his miscalculation."
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Re: No politics? Oh dear...

Post by Oliver »

I have meanwhile learned, that by far more brexit-supporters participated
in the referendum than opponents. Allegedly, because the opponents felt too sure,
that the brexit wouldn't happen.

Hence, in my eyes it is absolutely not proven that the brexit is what the majority of the british citizens really want.

My impression is, that the majority of the British is pretty surprised by the result
and no serious plans were made in advance for that scenario. Maybe it was really
just rattling on the cage as someone said before.

Let's see whether will come a government that will apply for the exit at all.
Let's see if there might even come another referendum. (Voters are already gathering as I've heard)

Call me naive, but there's still a spark of hope in me...
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Re: No politics? Oh dear...

Post by Christian »

The puppet theatre that is performed by the British politics during the last weeks illustrates the real problem in British government. And no one from the rest of the EU has something to do with this. But all who think that soon the next countries will get mentally infected by the British referendum and follow the UK out of the EU should recognize what a mess it caused. Nobody could ever want something similar in his own country. So what's going on in London these days doubtlessly saves the EU from another exit.
I do hope for the exit from the brexit, too. But I'm with Mother Merkel if Britain will leave the EU. There has to be a difference, if a country is part of the EU or not. The UK cannot claim for the single market if they leave. Would be a real pity to pay duty on Jensen spares in the future, but hey...the parts will become cheaper while the pound sterling crashes.
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Re: No politics? Oh dear...

Post by Jens »

AH1951 wrote:The UK will be just fine, but if Scotland & N Ireland want independence, let them go, they are a big drain on finances anyway.
Let the EU collapse, and with it the ridiculous euro so that each nation can issue its own currency and be in control of its own affairs.
The Germans should boot out Mad Merkel ASAP.
She has a lot to answer for. And she's butt ugly.
Replace her with Claudia Schiffer.
Let the 170,000 useless bureaucrats in Brussels get proper jobs.(10,000 of them earn more than Cameron.)
I hear McDonald's is hiring.
If that is your way of thinking:

No further comment necessary, Adrian :shock:

It is neither funny nor sarcastic nor intelligent.

I understood your idea of the current situation and I still completely disagree. You may advertise your infamous "read" a number of times but it will still prove to be bollocks for the informed European citizen. Believe the "truths" and stay with your agenda, I will stay with mine.

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Re: No politics? Oh dear...

Post by AH1951 »

Never mind, Jens.
You still have magnificent Jensens.
I was hoping someone would read all of that online book, rather than attack me, and comment intelligently upon it, instead of saying it's a load of bollocks, but I suppose it's a bit much to ask someone to plough through 352 pages.
It's OK for grown-ups to agree to disagree, no need for it to degenerate into a personal argument.
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She married an Englishman.
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Re: No politics? Oh dear...

Post by felixkk »

Not sure what is going on at the moment. What happenend to Boris? How can it be that the referendum should not be implemented? As much as I believe in the EU and regret UKs decision, it would be completely wrong for the politicians not to act as the people have decided- unless it is overturned by a 2nd referendum. The majority of the UK may or may not be for the EU, but that's beside the point- the vote has taken place and the results were relatively clear, the politicians need to move forward. If not, then the democratic process becomes a farce and you can't blame the voters for staying at home at the next election.
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Re: No politics? Oh dear...

Post by Denis »

Well, in case referendum will be not implemented, it will give huge negative impact on the what ever EU activity.

"We don't care in our ivory castle about what stupy people says" - absolutely every decision of EU might be criticized through this knowledge.

There are another weak spot of EU decision making. There are quite a lot of veto possibilities for members. But usually there are kind of levers which prevent members finally use it. Despite people in their countries are on different opinion.

Ignoring BREXIT results will made this even more awful. Every word, every proposal british representatives will do there will be questioned, because they don't have majority of votes.
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Re: No politics? Oh dear...

Post by Denis »

And by the way. Today is the FREXIT - 50 anniversary.


http://adst.org/2014/06/france-has-dega ... from-nato/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: No politics? Oh dear...

Post by Frankoid »

As long as the democratic vote is seen to be done it does not have to be done. This is how we are all ruled. :roll: Bread and circuses and opium of the people :wink:
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