My New Interceptor - '72 Mk 111, 133-5597

[RockyUSA]

Thank you! I’ve got lots of meat left on the old rotors!

[johnw]

All looks really interesting as I have my first Interceptor front suspension rebuild looming on a 74. We got some brake hoses with the spiral wire on the outside like the originals protecting the rubber from chafing. The new hoses were about 1/4" shorter than the originals and were just about long enough. It was tight length wise. The hoses were from ReJen. The old hoses had collapsed inside to the point where it was not possible to bleed the brakes. The car stops now but we need to do the joints.

[RockyUSA]

It has been A LOT of work!

About 3 weeks of working on it pretty consistently.

Of course if you are an expert, have a lift, and a big garage, a parts washer, and three helpers, then things will go faster.

Anyway - I’ve put the passenger side back together last night.

I’ve got to:

1. Set ride height on bushings - COMPLETE (12-8)
2. Hook up steering rack hydraulics - COMPLETE (12-8)
3. Hook up tie rods - COMPLETE (12-9)
4. Bleed brakes - COMPLETE (12-8)
5. Test Drive - COMPLETE (12-9)
6. Get a professional alignment

Finally getting to the end! Drove it today!

Rocky

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[RockyUSA]

In case you are wondering, here is a complete Mk 111 front suspension, prepped, with new hardware, and ready for reinstall.

Not mine, this is the suspension of Racer Joe.... mine looked like that.... except I did only one side at a time!

There’s a lot of parts here!

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Rocky

[RayR]

Hi Rocky, looks great.

Have you had an alignment done yet? I notice on the assembled picture you have all your caster spacers and shims on the front side of the ball joint. My US Mk III is the same on both sides yet It still does not reach the nominal caster in the manual - wondering if yours is the same. I would like to run a higher caster angle, at the top end of spec, to try and get some steering feel increase, but can't get there unless I shim the rear part of the A-arm which doesn't seem right to me. Glad to hear any other comments.

[slotcarone]

[slotcarone]

Moving the shims to the front will increase positive castor which should give increased steering feel in theory. Weather it will I cant be sure on these cars. I would not recommend putting an offset shim pack on the upper control arm shaft mount as the bolts are so close together I feel they will not tighten up sufficiently. Has anyone done that?

[Grant]

Hi Rocky, looks great.

Have you had an alignment done yet? I notice on the assembled picture you have all your caster spacers and shims on the front side of the ball joint. My US Mk III is the same on both sides yet It still does not reach the nominal caster in the manual - wondering if yours is the same. I would like to run a higher caster angle, at the top end of spec, to try and get some steering feel increase, but can't get there unless I shim the rear part of the A-arm which doesn't seem right to me. Glad to hear any other comments.

Ray, yes..if you move all the shims to the other side you will increase the caster which will give the maximum feel in the steering, it will work an Interceptor as I know a company that does this to their steering mods ..I'm going to do it mine too

[slotcarone]

Looks like there may be some confusion so just to make this clearer when you put the upper ball joint shims in the front side of the ball joint it moves the ball joint towards the rear of the car. This will increase the positive castor. When you increase positive castor you should get more steering feel.

[RockyUSA]

Hi Ray (et.al.) -

I haven’t gotten around to an alignment yet. I need to do that.

I’ll provide some data when I get it.

I do agree on the discussion of caster.

On my Pantera, It is possible to (and we did) take the upper ball joint, and mill 0.100” off the back side of the mount. This gives another couple degrees of caster.

On the Jensen - if one were to consider doing that, first thing we need to be sure that the milling process doesn’t cut into the pocket or weaken the socket where the ball rides in the upper ball joint.

If the ball joint was to be milled, I would also get / make additional shims for the front of the ball joint to keep the overall thickness of the ball joint & shim stack assembly the same.

But I’m not racing this car, and I’m happy with how it drives, so I’m done with the front suspension for a while.

I see what you are saying about adding another shim to the upper suspension arm pivot, that would also tilt the axis back a little. Myself, though - I would still want to ensure that any shimming in the upper control arms is compensated for in the ball joint & shim stack. I would not want to stress the arms or the bushing assembly.


Good luck with your car if you decide to change things.

Regards & Happy Holidays!

Rocky

[RayR]

Thanks Rocky etc.

Glad to hear my understanding is basically correct. With all my shims in place in the front of the ball joint, max castor, I get +2 deg on one side and +1 3/4 deg on the other side. My manual says 2 deg + 1/4 deg. Ideally I would have liked to try + 2 1/2 deg on both sides to see what that does. I have tried changing the P/S pump (for same type) and also re-shimming for reduced pressure as suggested on the forum but to my feel the steering is still too vague. I have a saginaw pump but reluctant to try that yet. Pretty sure I have a spare ball joint so might see if can be skimmed. Understand what you are saying Rocky, all the shim stack needs to stay constant to avoid 'bending' the arms, no matter what change is made.

Happy Holidays.

Ray

[RockyUSA]

So as all the alignment shops are closed for the holidays (and I am finding that prices for work have inexplicably gone up by a factor of 3 or 4), I decided to give my car a "self alignment" to get started.

I don't have any plans to change the caster or camber on my car (which would require addition or removal of shimming), because I have had good tire wear since getting the new tires back in December of 2016, and have 5500 miles on them. I also don't have any issues with the steering feel or the car tracking straight.

I used two 10' sections of square tube (3/4") set up on small paint cans. I did an initial "line-up" using the driver's side front wheel as the reference, and I measured the offsets as shown in the lower picture....

So based on this data - I determined that the rear axle was slightly misaligned on the rear leaf springs. I pushed the driver's side of the axle back, and pulled the passenger side forward so that the reference front tire (driver side) and the DS rear tire were aligned. Then I retightened / torqued the bolts clamping the axle assembly to the springs.

Next, I had to make a couple turns on the front passenger tie rod to get the "toe-out" of the front passenger tire to be aligned. I just basically set all the two wheel pairs on both sides of the car to be straight.

My fixture does not have the accuracy to precisely align the "toe-in" to the 1/16" specified in the shop manual.

I think I will drive it around for a while, and see how it feels. I think it will be "good enough for government work".

Let me know if I did anything dumb, but I think I basically got it right.

Rocky

Alignment Process

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Data

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[Grant]

I admire your mathematical knowledge My Ole ChuckyBoy using Tangent-1 etc
I've tried various simple home tracking devices in the past but a few years ago bought a lazer one fairly cheap and gave good results..but obviously it only does tracking, not camber or caster
I bought a car once that only turned left

[RockyUSA]

Thanks, Grant -

I wanted you to check my math!

I’ll have to check on a Lazer-aligner.... Sounds dangerous!

Rocky

[jvcarrier]

I bought a couple cheap laser levels with magnetic base, wheels off Lasers on the discs and center the wheels by using the lasers backwards so each dot is in same position on the rear tyres.
Then reverse them on the discs and line up on a wall about ten feet away. Marking the distance apart just in front of the wheels on a cross tube and then marking the distance apart on the wall. Half of the difference together with the distance to wall gives me a reasonably accurate result in degrees by using the measurements as sides a and b of a right angled triangle.

Also purchased a suspension set up laser level that gives the readout in degrees to the horizontal and vertical, I use it on the disc vertically with wheels in straight ahead to check camber and on The FF on the bottom of the front upright to get castor. Bit rough and ready but makes sure I am in the ball park.