C-V8 FF Recreation

[Per]

And that means we have two sources for the existence of the mule, which was a bodyless chassis.

So the chassis used for the roadgoing prototype could be a purpose built variation on the Interceptor chassis or based on the spare 1122.

[Frankoid]

I remember Norman saying he was looking at a CV8 which he thinks the interior of the CV8FF went into. It had Piper electric windows and glass rear windows. I too think 1122 was a testbed for the FF system. Incidentally 1121 was supplied engineless to Donald Healey who put a Chevrolet 327 V8 in, maybe both Healey and Jensen experimenting with the 541S chassis at this time

[Chris_R]

So the chassis used for the roadgoing prototype could be a purpose built variation on the Interceptor chassis.

This couldn't be. EEA 72C was built in 1965 and registered in 1965 (hence the 'C' suffix), the Interceptor was not done for another 9 months (or so).

[John Staddon]

We're straying far off topic here (against the new rules!) and to, briefly, bring us back on topic, I have been promised more information on the C-V8 FF replica project and I will post that when I receive it. But back to off topic, I briefly corresponded with Mike Jones about the C-V8 FFs, road car and factory mule, a couple of years ago and Mike remembers driving the mule around the "factory roads", he remembered it had a grey body but no bonnet and that it wasn't roadworthy, but it did have a body. Mike said that after his drive he never saw the mule again and he assumed it was scrapped.

John

[Per]

So the recreation based on a C-V8 chassis could be close to the original then? Unless of course the mule was 541S based.

[Frankoid]

I have JM/EXP/103 as the first CV8 (Mk I) turned into the CV8FF then scrapped, JM/EXP/110 as the CV8 FF (MkIII) rebodied at Vignale (is this on topic?)

[Per]

So with Ron's statement on the recreation being based on a C-V8 chassis it is most likely the C-V8 donating the body actually provided all the bits that are in common with the FF. Does that help you in identifying the donor John?

[John Staddon]

Per, no, there isn't enough information, but the project could be a 'bitsa' (bitsa = bits of), bits of the C-V8, bits of FF 63, bits made by Ron, bits acquired by Norman.

I agree with some of Francis's observations, EXP/103 was probably the mule and was scrapped, but there is discussion on this forum that seems to show that EXP/110 couldn't have been converted into the prototype FF (EXP 110 couldn't have been converted into the C-V8 FF, EXP 110 was the C-V8 FF) as it was recorded in the UK at a time when it should have been in Italy if it was being rebodied as an FF, though it is possible, indeed probable, that when it was eventually broken it contributed parts to either the prototype or a very early FF (unless it had been used and abused to such as extent as a prototype that JML couldn't contemplate using parts off it on a new 'customer car').

John

[Frankoid]

I made a list of all the EXP chassis years ago and found 3 CV8FF's, JM/EXP/103, JM/EXP/110 & JM/EXP/113. It now seems to me JM/EXP/103 was the mule, but the centre tube CV8 design was not suitable for the large FF unit and was scrapped/recycled. JM/EXP/110 was the peripheral tube (maybe a renumbered 1122?) the CV8FF with the reg EEA 72C and was scrapped, and JM/EXP/113 was the first proper peripheral tube FF chassis and went to Vignale to be renumbered 119/001...

On the recreated CV8 FF, has it a stretched bonnet and front wings?

[Per]

Going by the photo in the ad nothing has been done to the bonnet.

[John Staddon]

I have no more information from the seller, but after a lot of discussion with a few other people, including Ulric Woodhams, I have an answer to where at least part of the replica's body came from.

When the replica project first appeared I am told the body with it was from a Mk11 C-V8. The original C-V8 FF had a Mk111 body. Norman Paskin bought the project from George Zdanko and at the time it still came with the Mk11 body, but Norman set about finding more parts for the project including a Mk111 body and Ulric recalls he was able to buy a Mk111 body from someone in Hereford who had abandoned a project to make them into a "hot rod or something". I saw the replica project in 2015 and it had a MK111 body then, but in 2014 the remains of C-V8 Mk111 112/2402 were advertised for sale by a chap in Hereford who had abandoned a project to turn them into a track day car, so the body with the replica today is almost certainly from 2402. The abandoned track day car project also came with an engine and gearbox and I am told that the replica project being sold today does include an engine so that fits. But the bonnet I saw in 2015 was still in grey paint, the body was in primer, and 2402 was blue, so the bonnet doesn't come from 2402, but I have also heard that the body with the C-V8 FF replica comes from more than one C-V8 so bonnet and body may not come from the same car.

What Ron Clay told be about buying the C-V8 body from Medway Interceptors may be true, but if he did it was the Mk11 body and it couldn't have been from 2415 or 2460 as i thought it might be earlier.

When I saw the replica project in 2015 the bonnet and wings had not been lengthened.

John

[Frankoid]

As they are saying its a 1968 car, presumably FF 119/063 (or at least its chassis number) is the donor car as it is too late for the CV8's ?

[Per]

Going by Ron's statement the actual chassis is C-V8 so paperwork, maybe some bits and possibly the front subframe off an FF.

[John Staddon]

As we have discussed earlier in this thread the seller has said that the chassis is from FF 063, Ron Clay, who built the replica, says that it isn't, I'm sorry but I don't think I can add to the discussion.

The replica isn't registered with the DVLA and there are no old registration documents with it and I also understand that Norman Paskin had agreed with the DVLA that when finished it would be classed as a radically altered vehicle, so I think he had given up on the idea of proving it was FF 063. The mention of 1968 in the advert is a sort of 'slip of the pen', according to the seller the chassis is said to be from FF 063, and therefore from 1968, but that isn't proven and so you can't rely on that date and it really shouldn't have been stated in the advert.

In answer to Per's last post, I think that what Ron was saying is it is a replica C-V8 FF chassis and not a replica FF chassis (but how does anyone know how the C-V8 FF chassis was constructed when there was only ever one and that doesn't exist anymore?).

John

[Per]

One more round in the hamster wheel

Ron said it was a modified C-V8 chassis. So take a rotten such, graft FF tubes into the sides, cut floor to accommodate the transfer box an you are there. In front of the bulkhead copy FF.

Whether that is what Jensen did instead of starting with a 541S chassis or not we will never know for sure unless the missing parts of the archive turn up.