CCA Auction - 25th May - Results

[Steve Payne]

I know of several very nice Interceptors that have been for sale for a while. I think the problem is when you are asking this kind of money people look at what else they can buy for similar money and how many people are there actually out there in the market for a £50 k toy?

Steve

[Martin R]

I do sometimes wonder if we all started asking £100k+ for our "truly great" cars (not the dodgy bodged ones) if someone wants a truly great car, that's what they'd have to pay!
Or, if you pay 30k then need to spend 50k getting it totally right, at least you KNOW that it's been done right. Hopefully...

[R.D. Sigi Herring]

I know of several very nice Interceptors that have been for sale for a while. I think the problem is when you are asking this kind of money people look at what else they can buy for similar money and how many people are there actually out there in the market for a £50 k toy?

Steve

Fair point.

[R.D. Sigi Herring]

I do sometimes wonder if we all started asking £100k+ for our "truly great" cars (not the dodgy bodged ones) if someone wants a truly great car, that's what they'd have to pay!
Or, if you pay 30k then need to spend 50k getting it totally right, at least you KNOW that it's been done right. Hopefully...

Its therefore of great benefit when the JOC would offer a 'comprehensive' valuation service, that the Seller pays for, and the prospective buyers can see.
Such a service would be on this forum, and a very detailed pre-purchase assessment is done. There are clearly 100+ points that the seasoned Jensen 'Trader' would look at when making an assessment themselves on work to be done. If presented in a consistent way, with a JOC format agreed and underwritten by the individual 'traders', it would go some way to underpinning the good cars values such as Clives & mine. The key would be JOC support, a consistently presented format (so whoever did the assessments) there could be a fair comparison by the purchasers, and available online for buyers to see whats available at what price and condition.

[johnw]

Really, the only JOC thing that counts in my view, is a concourse entry slip. It makeS a big difference, and it iS competitive, comparative. 10 [*]

[garyc]

Might be worth speaking to Stuart Turner ( mk1Stu) I thought he was providing this service of car valuations with approval from the club if he's not able to other people have been appointed to do this regionally as well.
I don't think it's a 100 points and as in depth as you suggest but may help you and is step in the right direction
GaryC

[Michael Richardson]

With all the best of intentions, I can not see a (small) club website changing the game re jacking up the value of the product. It is a bit like me wanting to change the value of the Euro/gold/coffee/oil/corn/steel. The 'market' decides,and the market is down for everyone in the classic car scene right now. Yes,there are buyers out there,but IF they spot a car on the JOC site at twice the price that similar vehicles are offered,and valued by Hagerty,then they will walk away. I do not see any way that input from a club (not just JOC) but Aston/Jag/Merc will alter the marketplace.In the mid eighties some thought that top classics were gold bars...you could not go wrong They did,and investors lost millions. ...Then prices came back,but right now the brave will be looking to invest for the next lift-up,this will mean being very sharp on price.

[johnw]

With all the best of intentions, I can not see a (small) club website changing the game re jacking up the value of the product. It is a bit like me wanting to change the value of the Euro/gold/coffee/oil/corn/steel. The 'market' decides,and the market is down for everyone in the classic car scene right now. Yes,there are buyers out there,but IF they spot a car on the JOC site at twice the price that similar vehicles are offered,and valued by Hagerty,then they will walk away. I do not see any way that input from a club (not just JOC) but Aston/Jag/Merc will alter the marketplace.In the mid eighties some thought that top classics were gold bars...you could not go wrong They did,and investors lost millions. ...Then prices came back,but right now the brave will be looking to invest for the next lift-up,this will mean being very sharp on price.

I saw a car on ebay sell for half the JOC valuation. The valuation was not at fault. Just market forces if you want to sell and the market is slow.
It is possible to jack up the value of individual cars with a JOC inspection The Concourse! Several experts in one place give lots of good ideas. You learn a lot about your car. Previous owners may show up, etc. My experience was very positive, even though I had a Mk1 with Mk3 wheels. You get a sheet with marks which really helps more than an expert report in my view.

[Grant]

Anyone coming along telling you your car is worth this or your bracelet is worth that in my opinion is a total load of old ballony.. if someone for example tells you or inspects your car and gives you a certificate to say its worth eg £60K and then you advertise it everywhere and it doesn't sell then it is isn't worth that to anyone is it?.. it's only worth what you can get. I understand that someone in the know can come along and say they think its worth X because it is lovely and a good example, but it you can't seem to sell it for that then it's not is it?.. Simple, now.. if you put the same car or bracelet £60k valued that hasn't sold up for sale for £10 it would sell in 5 minutes, therefore the car/bracelet at 60k was too expensive and not worth that to anyone.. surely or am I wrong?

[Mark1Stu]

I concur with the earlier comments that the market will decide. The JOC provides a car valuation for insurance purposes based on the Registrar's opinion - which is based on what they know of real sale prices not over inflated screen prices. In other words, what it is likely to cost to replace your car with an equivalent example, should yours be written off. Probably necessitating buying the replacement from a dealer at a premium.

As a rule of thumb, if your car was valued (for insurance purposes) at say £57k, you can probably knock £10-15k off to arrive at the actual sale price. Which I would guess is the margin dealers would be looking at....and where your car (if it presents well) is likely to end up.

Talking to a serious car collector recently, his view is the higher end of the market is in decline (across the board - no doubt with exceptions) - with people holding back due to uncertainty over Brexit and the world economy. He offered the view that dealers wouldn't look to buy from private sellers who had only bought into their car a handful of years ago as they had too much invested in it. Better to buy (at the right price) from those who had made their money on the cars years before.

If you need to sell at present, I think it's tough out there. Too high a price and it becomes a landmark car. Drop the price and a potential buyer will no doubt want to chip away at the price some more.

As for concours. Worth remembering that the JOC scoring is skewed towards cleanliness. So a concours winning car doesn't necessarily mean it's a proper top Jensen in every respect. Especially in the body. That said, we of course have some truly special concours examples (in every respect) in the club - which are a credit to the owners. I'd also add, reductions in silverware haven't mirrored the reduction in concours entries over the last decade. Which again needs to be borne in mind when buying or selling.

Sadly, when it comes to Interceptors in particular, there are still a lot of edgy ones out there that should be avoided (not my words, Classic Car 2019 Investment Guide). Worth bearing in mind if buying or deciding who to entrust with the restoration of your car.

[MikeWilliams]

So....a marque 'expert' values mine at £53950.....and Im asking £46,00.

Patience. It takes time to find the right buyer - or send it to auction and hope for the best, but remember the fees they will charge. But I do wonder if that marque expert is an owner and possibly even in the trade, so may have a vested interest in pushing up prices?

Mike

[johnw]

So....a marque 'expert' values mine at £53950.....and Im asking £46,00.

Patience. It takes time to find the right buyer - or send it to auction and hope for the best, but remember the fees they will charge. But I do wonder if that marque expert is an owner and possibly even in the trade, so may have a vested interest in pushing up prices?

Mike

I completely agree Mike.
It does take time. 2 years perhaps as a private seller. I think I read that appraisal. It sounded great. I think you would need a concourse entry to help close things. It covers stuff the appraisal wont. Not just cleanliness, but use of correct parts, etc. It shows how far above the Hagarty excellent condition towards concourse you are. The buyer can also speak to other club members who will have seen it, even if you come last.

[Michael Richardson]

not nit-picking,but Mk1 Stu has this right.....The spelling is 'concours' as in concours d'elegance. It is French you know.

[R.D. Sigi Herring]

Interesting.
Thank you chaps.

In conclusion, it seems that ...

- concours gives you a list of things that are 'dirty' or non-standard...that can be rectified, at a cost....both in time & money
- a £54k valuation from a 'trade' specialist means an actual target sale price to a 'Joe' of £39k - £44k
- be prepared to wait for 2 years. to get this sum....or if you can't wait, throw it in the ring & hope for the best...!
- Interceptors are now viewed as a 'top-end' motor, in a market that is contracting in the 'top end' motor market
- a 'joe' may get lucky at the £15-£30k mark, but is going to loose a bundle in restoration costs if he buys at the lower end, simply because of the cost in parts & hours
- hunting for the right 'Joe' will take time, money, dedication, patience ....& a big dollop of luck to do a deal

Bugger....better put it in the ring, or sob, uncontrollably as I cant put the divorce off.
Where's the nearest cliff..?

I concur with the earlier comments that the market will decide. The JOC provides a car valuation for insurance purposes based on the Registrar's opinion - which is based on what they know of real sale prices not over inflated screen prices. In other words, what it is likely to cost to replace your car with an equivalent example, should yours be written off. Probably necessitating buying the replacement from a dealer at a premium.

As a rule of thumb, if your car was valued (for insurance purposes) at say £57k, you can probably knock £10-15k off to arrive at the actual sale price. Which I would guess is the margin dealers would be looking at....and where your car (if it presents well) is likely to end up.

Talking to a serious car collector recently, his view is the higher end of the market is in decline (across the board - no doubt with exceptions) - with people holding back due to uncertainty over Brexit and the world economy. He offered the view that dealers wouldn't look to buy from private sellers who had only bought into their car a handful of years ago as they had too much invested in it. Better to buy (at the right price) from those who had made their money on the cars years before.

If you need to sell at present, I think it's tough out there. Too high a price and it becomes a landmark car. Drop the price and a potential buyer will no doubt want to chip away at the price some more.

As for concours. Worth remembering that the JOC scoring is skewed towards cleanliness. So a concours winning car doesn't necessarily mean it's a proper top Jensen in every respect. Especially in the body. That said, we of course have some truly special concours examples (in every respect) in the club - which are a credit to the owners. I'd also add, reductions in silverware haven't mirrored the reduction in concours entries over the last decade. Which again needs to be borne in mind when buying or selling.

Sadly, when it comes to Interceptors in particular, there are still a lot of edgy ones out there that should be avoided (not my words, Classic Car 2019 Investment Guide). Worth bearing in mind if buying or deciding who to entrust with the restoration of your car.