ff 143 on ebay

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Peter Rothery
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ff 143 on ebay

Post by Peter Rothery »

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JENSEN-FF-Mk ... SwemVazl1r" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Great project for someone.
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Chris_R
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Re: ff 143 on ebay

Post by Chris_R »

Where on earth do these things keep appearing from? I am quite frankly astonished given the limited number produced that there are still cars like this to be discovered.
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Jens
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Re: ff 143 on ebay

Post by Jens »

Peter Rothery wrote:...
Great project for someone.
EXPENSIVE project for someone.

Where would this „someone“ source a bonnet, front wings, valance and all these nice little and rotten FF things?

Sills are gone, chassis probably too, a magic wand might be helpful.

22.5 k£ for a pile of junk - hope all the papers are handy ... 8)
In order of appearance:

C-V8 Mk III 112/2432
541 S 102/1035

(sold) FF MkII 127/243 (sold)
Healey Mk II 1140/14406
Jensen GT 1610/30257
Scimitar GTE SE5
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cannonball
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Re: ff 143 on ebay

Post by cannonball »

Jens wrote:
Peter Rothery wrote:...
Great project for someone.
EXPENSIVE project for someone.

Where would this „someone“ source a bonnet, front wings, valance and all these nice little and rotten FF things?

Sills are gone, chassis probably too, a magic wand might be helpful.

22.5 k£ for a pile of junk - hope all the papers are handy ... 8)
Jens Jens Jens, ffs boost our flag ship Jensens do not keep on bringing them down, what will the equiv Aston martin be marketed at in this condition,,
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Jens
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Re: ff 143 on ebay

Post by Jens »

Duncan,

I do have an FF myself and I know how difficult (and expensive) it is to source parts made of unobtainium. I am pretty sure you know that yourself.

Of course the FF is the flagship and nearly every car is worth saving but it will be a very hard and looooong way to make a flagship out of this one, won‘t it?

I am not brave enough to try 143.
In order of appearance:

C-V8 Mk III 112/2432
541 S 102/1035

(sold) FF MkII 127/243 (sold)
Healey Mk II 1140/14406
Jensen GT 1610/30257
Scimitar GTE SE5
Gordon Keeble #21
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Chris_R
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Re: ff 143 on ebay

Post by Chris_R »

Worth adding a few pictures for the record!
FF-119143#1.jpg
FF-119143#1.jpg (264.44 KiB) Viewed 1922 times
FF-119143#2.jpg
FF-119143#2.jpg (286.97 KiB) Viewed 1922 times
FF-119143#3.jpg
FF-119143#3.jpg (250.6 KiB) Viewed 1922 times
FF-119143#4.jpg
FF-119143#4.jpg (174.25 KiB) Viewed 1922 times
FF-119143#5.jpg
FF-119143#5.jpg (260.21 KiB) Viewed 1922 times
A few hours metal bashing needed to make some new panels!
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johnw
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Re: ff 143 on ebay

Post by johnw »

Hmm. Still has the original voltage regulator. Is that a transmission cooler pipe at the top left of the radiator? Never seen one there before.
Ooh. It must be saved!

I agree with ALL the sentiments on this post. Forget the price for now, as it only 20% of the final car's value, and is negotiable.

"Jensens are not viable projects at commercial rates." That used to be true, and it was never a better time for someone to get a car on the cheap to have fun. About the only project car that was viable was a non runner, that could be fixed up to drivable.

I wish someone would buy this and restore it to old banger condition, rather than perfect. Look how nice that dash looks, two tone, the old Ambla grain. The new stuff is not the same!

All this car needs is steel sheet, electricity, paint, rubber, discounting the labour of love of course! Perfect for someone who wants a labour of love, to escape the real world for a decade or so.

I think someone needs to go round there with a trailer, and pound notes, and do a deal on the spot, perhaps swap another Jensen, whatever. Go in with a Jensen he wants. People do Interceptors in this condition, and when done this will be worth double.

I thought I recognised this car, and that I saw it at Medway around 2000. It was in better shape and still had the bonnet. Some rust along the sills back then, nothing like this. However, it looks like this car is from Londonderry, according to the tax disk, so not the one which came from London. So there is possibly another gold Mk1 FF lurking in this condition! Mk1 mid range chassis number.

The thing is, owners know the cars a special, and hang on for dear life, through thick and thin. Many lesser cars would get crushed, but these get pushed to one side.

About the bonnet, not an issue! Travelling Wilbury made a mould, others will. Ron Clay could rustle something up and has posted pictures showing his tooling. There are steel replicas, aluminium too, new frames for £1200 from Robey, people buying new ones and casting aside ones that can be salvaged by the intrepid home "expert". In the 10 years this car takes the owner may come across one or two bonnets.
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Peter Rothery
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Re: ff 143 on ebay

Post by Peter Rothery »

Whoever buys it needs to do their sums and decide if they have the skill to DIY or if they are going to have to pay someone elses wages to do it for them.

It is better than some other recent examples and at least is roughly the right shape to start with. Some panels could possibly be patch repaired with a bit of effort although the bonnet and roof might be more challenging technically and/or financially. If the tubes need replacing it doesn't matter whether they are slightly rusty or completely rotted out.....it just saves a lot of extra chiselling and angle grinding!!!

The same vendor is trying to sell a mint example for £135k which may be a bit ambitious but assume it is worth £100k and this project is £20k...leaves you with about £80k to play with. Factor in the 1000 hours of work to do and decide for yourself! Johnw's estimate of a decade of work might be slightly over but you do need to be sure that when you finally emerge from the garage the wife and kids still remember who you are. The car is probably in the state it is because for years the sums didn't add up. No point in spending £10k on something that is only ever going to be worth £5k for example unless you want the best of the best and want to be sure you get it 100%.

My experience of a dozen or so Jensens over the years is that it is all the little things that all begin to add up even when the body and paint is finally sorted. The engine on this is almost certain to be seized, frost damaged or maybe scrap despite the alleged low mileage. Budget upto £5k for something that actually works, £3k so sort the gearboxes, £1500 for brake calipers discs servo refurb etc., £1k for a rust free fuel tank, £500 for new shocks, +exhaust, tyres, rad, steering rack, bumpers, carb, wheels, wiring loom, lights, complete interior refurb...........my head hurts already.

As the saying goes "if you cannot afford to buy a decent JENSEN, you certainly cannot afford a bad one".
Peter Rothery
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Re: ff 143 on ebay

Post by Peter Rothery »

johnw wrote: new frames for £1200 from Robey, s.
I think they (part number 27315F) are now more like £2650 inc VAT now!
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johnw
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Re: ff 143 on ebay

Post by johnw »

Some good advice there Peter. My guess is that Jensen/Classic car prices may have crashed again before it gets sorted. We don't know how high they will go this time, or how much they will fall back. You need a good nerve, and don't put too much in on obtainable items up front. Don't stock up on chrome bits, lights, bages, engine parts, alloy heads, injection systems, overdrives. All those distractions.

In my view, it needs a loving owner to spend a ridiculous amount of time carefully removing the interior and glass, door trim, chrome, dash. It will be difficult to pay someone the hours needed to clean, preserve, box and label the stuff up at £40 per hour.

3 garages worth of space might be enough to strip, store, lay out, etc. At that point, getting just the tubes, door A posts, etc done by a real Jensen pro who has done 10+ FFs. That is probably about 3 people, and getting someone interested to do the work might be tricky. Perhaps leave the engine in at this point.

Looking at the car with interior out, new tubes perfectly fitted (assuming it went well), you have a good basis. If you could be at that position for £30K all in, tubes fitted by a pro, you would have done well in my view. I would not retrim that. Look at youtube to see how the torn leather can be reinforced from behind, filled and redyed.

If the car came back with tubes done, nice and straight, you could bring it home, take a deep breath, take time to get divorced, and be fully ready for the next phase.
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Re: ff 143 on ebay

Post by cannonball »

Have seen a few FF,s over the last months in for transmission work, I don't know what all the fuss is about chassis tubes, gut the car brace it and weld em in plenty of people could fit them me included, AND get the fit finish of the pros, so tubes would not phase me, not taking the outside panels in to account, the other metal work on a Jensen is flat plate so lots of cutting and bending etc and you will have the inner skeleton built, big cost for outer panels yes but bide your time who knows what may show up,, this could be a really good build for someone at 22k then build as funds permit,,
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cannonball
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Re: ff 143 on ebay

Post by cannonball »

This FF was delivered to Malcom templeton 23rd June 1969 to be got ready for a Mr John Verner Hill, He kept this car till 1982 nothing known about it since,,

cooler pipe position is correct, :wink:
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Dion
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Re: ff 143 on ebay

Post by Dion »

johnw wrote:I think someone needs to go round there with a trailer, and pound notes, and do a deal on the spot, perhaps swap another Jensen, whatever. Go in with a Jensen he wants.
Note that this car is being sold by Andrew Cassar, a very well known Jensen trader, so it is not as if the seller is unfamiliar with Jensens. There seems to be a white 541 in the shed as well.
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Frankoid
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Re: ff 143 on ebay

Post by Frankoid »

For such an important car of the 20th century, with a bullet-proof Chrysler engine, "bite the back of the hand" beautiful Italian styling, groundbreaking four-wheel drive and antilock brakes in an English hand made shell, this seems a bargain! It will be worth Robeys, Re-Jen etc remanufacturing roof panels soon as there is a growing and realistic demand. The beauty of handmade cars, unlike mass-produced cars, is that all the parts can be re-made, even the items made of unobtainium! It looks like a complete Maxerat system is still in the car so the brakes will not be a problem should the owner decide to repair them.
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johnw
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Re: ff 143 on ebay

Post by johnw »

cannonball wrote:Have seen a few FF,s over the last months in for transmission work, I don't know what all the fuss is about chassis tubes, gut the car brace it and weld em in plenty of people could fit them me included, AND get the fit finish of the pros, so tubes would not phase me, not taking the outside panels in to account, the other metal work on a Jensen is flat plate so lots of cutting and bending etc and you will have the inner skeleton built, big cost for outer panels yes but bide your time who knows what may show up, this could be a really good build for someone at 22k then build as funds permit,,
I agree completely. But if a newbie screws up the tubes, for example decides to section them and replace the bottom half and then doesn't weld them properly, or doesn't brace it properly, or doesn't do it properly for 1001 other reasons, then the whole basis of the car going forward is compromised. On the scale of things, a pro won't charge that much more, because they will do it more quickly, more accurately, make more money on it, and also produce the goods with less chance of failure. If the owner screws up an outer panel repair, it is relatively trivial to fix, and relatively obvious to all.

With regard to outer panels, that could become much easier as well. Build up a library of 3D digitised Interceptors and FFs which we all share, yes they are all different, but a representative shape of an original factory car could be fitted to a digital model of the car at hand, if say half the car was missing. For this one, scan the car now, fill in the rust digitally, generate forms for body bucks for the rotten sections, and print out/stick on MDF/cut them out with a jig saw, and form the sheet metal, to the mm, off the car over the buck, making a perfect repair section to TIG into place. You can then scan the car and see where it deviates from the repaired digital model while the repair sections are held in place with magnets/clamps. You end up with a much more original car, more original metal, and a better match to the original body profile, which is archived, car by car, for the future after accidents, etc.

These scanners are expensive at the moment. 3dengineers.co.uk are already doing this commercially. All that is needed is for us to all share our 3D model libraries, not get protective over them, and make that all are available to all for free.
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