Anglia Car Auction: FF Mk1

[Chris_R]

No doubt after the recent announcements in various countries to ban the sale of solely internal combustion engined cars after certain dates varying between 2025 (Netherlands) and 2040 (UK and France) and that 10 years after those dates efforts will be made to phase out diesel and petrol engined cars that petrol and diesel use will decline at an ever increasing rate and like 4 star leaded petrol will become increasingly difficult to get as over time fewer and fewer outlets will be available.
Already 40% of all new cars sold in Norway are either hybrid or fully electric, helped by advantageous tax incentives and only zero emission cars will be sold after 2025. The UK has already set the target that by 2050 all cars on the road will have to have zero emissions. The implication of this is that sales of electric cars will increase rapidly as the deadlines approach and my guess is that all new cars sold by 2030 or soon after will either be hybrid or fully electric allowing time for the required infrastructure to grow and for technology to improve sufficiently and for the overwhelming majority of petrol or diesel engined cars to have reached their end of life by 2050.
So where does that leave historic cars? Like anything historic there will be preservation societies, the various car clubs, and an enthusiastic and dedicated following who will keep and maintain them, including this FF. Like today, traction engines, steam trains and other historic preservation sites attract people in their thousands so I think that in the future historic cars will still be an attraction, possibly even more so as people start to grow up only knowing the sound of electric cars and not knowing what cars were like in the 1st century of motoring. Historic cars and car shows will let them see them.

[Martin K]

Seems a lot to pay for a donor car, but then if JIA want to convert an FF where else can you find a cheap one ? Not sure I like the FF being fitted with modern drivetrain, as the whole point of the FF was the mechanics, and 50 year old mechanics are not going to live with 500 hp from a Vette so re engineering will be notable.

100% with you on that Paul and I can't figure the commercials on the project

[Peter Rothery]

I know Cannonball for one will disapprove but if I had £45k to spend and I wanted a 4wd supercar trimmed like a Bentley inside. I would buy a.........oh an early Bentley GTC thus saving a few years of hard labour and an investment of double the initial outlay. The top comes down as well in the summer. Perhaps a disaster fund of a few £k to deal with servicing and electrical and suspension issues and job done. Leave classics as they were intended to be. If you want a modern car and you want to be different then by all means visit a dealer and get a spec'd up eurobox instead!

I'm all for upgrades like aircon and cooling fans, lights and safety items etc. Not quite so sure about the big brakes, wheels, suspension and engines/gearboxes to "improve" the driving experience.

I guess the upside of all this is that original spec cars become rarer/more sought after? Opinion will no doubt be divided.

[cannonball]

I know Cannonball for one will disapprove but if I had £45k to spend and I wanted a 4wd supercar trimmed like a Bentley inside. I would buy a.........oh an early Bentley GTC thus saving a few years of hard labour and an investment of double the initial outlay. The top comes down as well in the summer. Perhaps a disaster fund of a few £k to deal with servicing and electrical and suspension issues and job done. Leave classics as they were intended to be. If you want a modern car and you want to be different then by all means visit a dealer and get a spec'd up eurobox instead!

I'm all for upgrades like aircon and cooling fans, lights and safety items etc. Not quite so sure about the big brakes, wheels, suspension and engines/gearboxes to "improve" the driving experience.

I guess the upside of all this is that original spec cars become rarer/more sought after? Opinion will no doubt be divided.

Peter, i do not disapprove of mostly anything that helps a Jensen to survive, but some people with plenty of cash love the shape of a Jensen but just do not want to have to live with 40+ yr old technology hence a very small market for a modern day build, its all good in my book, concours restoration from the likes of Rejen to a bit of a beater kept alive by the skin of its teeth to a modern day Jensen full of modern day techo big supercharged engine putting out mega hp with a transmission, axle brakes suspension etc to cope with it,

I had another look over the FF today its a great donor car,

[johnw]

Wouldn't it be nice if JIA sold the finished car along with the boxed up original FF engine and associated components? Better still, leave it original - as there are 2 FFs I'm aware of which are prime candidates for the JIA treatment.

I think the amount reworking and re-engineering they do would render that a total waste of time, it probably could never be put back. This is the 4th FF for possible restoration sold in the UK in the last 6 months. There was 028 which I thought I heard went to Australia, then 272 and122 and now 080. Perhaps JIA already have 272 and 122 and now 080 makes the 3rd for them.

It is crazy how many FFs have popped up recently. I hope this is a trend that will continue, due to demographics. Money is a factor when someone rocks up waving serious cash, wanting it for non scrap purposes, this was the case with 122 and the derelict CV8 it shared a leaky building with since the 70s or 80s. Others are right about electric cars taking over. My neighbour a classic car fan, sold his metallic green '86 V8 vantage of 20 years, still on 4 webers, and shortly after a Tesla arrives. He misses the Aston but loves the Tesla, which is quicker and zero maintenance. Regenerative braking is amazing. All that wasted energy from starting off, and moving a heavy car to 30mph goes straight into a battery on braking. A Tesla is a very heavy car. Imagine 2 motors, one for each front wheel on an Interceptor. You don't need long battery life, just 50 mile range, 20 even, an extra 400hp on take off, and good regenerative braking capacity. You also get 4WD, and zero emissions in town, at the lights, where it matters. You can use a hot cam in the Mopar engine as it doesn't need to idle anymore. The complexity of a modern engine, electronics and transmission will only bring maintenance hassle, the slight performance advantage of a modern engine at low speeds is lost almost completely. Imagine driving in total silence. Traffic clears, foot to the floor, car shoots off, 3 seconds later a massive V8 sound fires up, and the car disappears even more rapidly over the horizon like it is on after burners. I can see people paying 150K+ for an old car that does that.

[Arcnewal]

I was speaking to a gentlemen today via email about this car. He informed me that he attended the auction and was one of the underbidders and lost the car to JIA. This will be JIA's fourth
FF R. The conversion process involves removing the very unit that makes the car an FF. The whole Ferguson unit is ditched for a modern American unit, so it's not really an FF at all.

[johnw]

I guess that means they get to keep the really good bits, the 383, the servo, Maxaret, and the transfer box and sell them on! The bits that fetch the most when breaking an FF! I wonder if the FF R has ABS?

This is a conversion process that might equally be applicable to an Interceptor, a modern setup is presumably compact enough, and the Interceptor is symmetrical in terms of bulkhead/transmission layout, and so easily lends its self to LHD conversion. The later Schuler FF system (available with 5 speed manual) as fitted to 70s/80s Range Rovers would be an interesting one to use, or even pay a visit to FF Developments themselves. They did work for the AWD Volvos when they came out, after the XJ220 project and Ford RS200.

I could see an Interceptor converted to FF with a Schuler FF Box being worth more or the same as a standard Interceptor in 20 years. I guess with the FF people will want them original, and be willing to pay. I was at ReJen the other day and Jason was saying how more and more these days originality is king.

One really interesting option these days is with electric front drive hybrid systems with regenerative braking on the front wheels and the benefits of 4wd.

[Eddie]

I was speaking to a gentlemen today via email about this car. He informed me that he attended the auction and was one of the underbidders and lost the car to JIA. This will be JIA's fourth
FF R. The conversion process involves removing the very unit that makes the car an FF. The whole Ferguson unit is ditched for a modern American unit, so it's not really an FF at all.

I would assume from this there could already be a road going FF R.

Would be interested to see it.

Hopefully JIA might look to do an open day.

The Rejen one seems to be a success so another would be welcome.

[Tim SP]

JIA-
We are talking the sort of resto-mod that is like a factory car running along a track & IS comparible with the very obvious marque's.
The only high end effort that works & is credible & continues to have customers, rather than bullshit prices got for some half baked tat.
Had JCC ltd continues, I would think this is what they would do, hopefully as well, with such vision.

They are saving cars, anything FF related that isnt toast is kept & do you think they would buy a good car & destroy it??
No they use rubbish & build it properly- like no other could really to be frank.
I would think any genuine Jensen enthusiast would be totally behind this effort, as this is the a real deal, ie not some promise of a car we aint ever going to see, or some half baked effort, that, when you scratch the surface, or peek behind the curtain, only to find smoke & mirrors.

If you were at Excel, you could have met them & seen.
I have suggested a mag test drive/ article-

[jvcarrier]

Tim,
If they are junking the engine, FF gear and all the rest that made an FF special how can you say they are saving cars?

If anything they are driving up the prices of the projects so that real car enthusiasts cannot afford to restore them. To my mind anyone who spends several hundred thousand pounds on a FF body shell with new running gear needs their head looking.

I love my classics and would not sacrifice one to provide a modern driving experience in a classic body. Any change I make is reversible with the original parts kept.
For a modern driving experience I have an F12 and I can guarantee it performs in a different league a to a souped up “FF” and probably cost significantly less.

I think it is a great shame that they are effectively breaking these rare cars, that we all aspired to in our youth, in order to make a few bucks and frankly am surprised that you support their actions.
Regards
John

[felixkk]

Tim,
If they are junking the engine, FF gear and all the rest that made an FF special how can you say they are saving cars?

If anything they are driving up the prices of the projects so that real car enthusiasts cannot afford to restore them. To my mind anyone who spends several hundred thousand pounds on a FF body shell with new running gear needs their head looking.

I love my classics and would not sacrifice one to provide a modern driving experience in a classic body. Any change I make is reversible with the original parts kept.
For a modern driving experience I have an F12 and I can guarantee it performs in a different league a to a souped up “FF” and probably cost significantly less.

I think it is a great shame that they are effectively breaking these rare cars, that we all aspired to in our youth, in order to make a few bucks and frankly am surprised that you support their actions.
Regards
John

It would not be easy to MOT a JIA conversion here in Switzerland, and I'd think the demand for this type of car is very limited- most everyone here wants an orginal car as possible, with sensible upgrades. Mike Koch was at the London show and was quite impressed with the build quality though (greetings back to you, Zac and Shaun!). Tim, is it you Mike spoke with? Was your car here in Switzerland at some point?

[Arcnewal]

anything FF related that isnt toast is kept

Did JIA confirm this to you then?

do you think they would buy a good car & destroy it?? No they use rubbish & build it properly- like no other could really to be frank.

So because 119/080 is in need of a full restoration you class that as rubbish? It’s a complete, unmolested and original car. I wouldn’t class that as rubbish.

[Tim SP]

Junking rare parts?? I doubt that.

If you are a multi millionaire that cares not that the custard Jensen will never be worth anything like it should, then you pay 000,000 in the certain knowledge it wont be a good investment.
How is that anyhting other than remarkable- for christ sake.

I wouldn't have strocked my old car, I'd have bought another, so there it is, all personal.
Where were all 'these people' when poor idiots like us were saving them & or running them on zero money only love.
Did you save any.

I had a convo at Excel, when it was mentioned about converting Aston's, the air turned blue- they were worth nothing & it saved a few of them that were doomed. Some were good cars, so looks bad, all retrospect.
I might have this FF thing wrong, however, if the gentleman bought the best car on earth & had the conversion (parts kept I know they are for the car) he can easy return, but he has as close to new car possible- thats what I am championing- that car will be future proofed I think.
I already said I am original king, but I own that & it isnt perfect or really usable- that FF owner can now use as a car, when he could own whatever he wanted- he choose Jensen & thats great no?

All the best, that at least agree to disagree- hopefully all freinds here- we naffing should be!!

[montpellier]

I find ,personally, taking an FF to do this type of project difficult to understand.The whole point of the FF is the drivetrain and braking system. It is a unique engineering solution ahead of it's time and that innovation that makes an FF over an Interceptor different and to an extent more sought after. There are not so may around either, and if you transplant an engine, it is clear the original driveline will not be able to cope, so will also need to be re engineered (if at all possible) if you wish to retain all wheel drive. With that level of engineering involved, why not use a series 3 Interceptor. A modern interpretation of an FF would be a Ferrari FF / Lusso. A project like this is akin to putting into a Daytona the F12 engine. If someone suggested that , people would certify you. It is very different to the type of chop and change that happened when the cars were worth little, as then people had no desire for them and like banger racing a Silver Shadow was what people did. In fairness I have not read exactly what the plan is for this FF and this might be a comment that is out of touch with the reality, but I would prefer a car such as this retains it's unique structure. Each to their own of course .

[Joerg]

... and I would pay a fortune for the original FF brake servo, but can´t find one.
Contacted JAI for "scap parts" from the conversions, but they replied that both owners wanted to keep all original parts to ensure that they can be returned to original.

I think that is not a bad reply and hope the conversion will be only a part time thing.

Joerg